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Shilsen's Eberron SH (Finished - The Last Word : 9/20/15)
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<blockquote data-quote="Furby076" data-source="post: 5328760" data-attributes="member: 32161"><p>Really? Nearly as good as Luna or Korm? Gareth's healing capabilities were never as good as the rest of the group. Maybe at level 2. Right now Gareth is a 14th level caster, with practiced spell caster to be 17. Back when the best healers in the group could do cure critical Gareth could not. And again the math was as simple then as it is now - Gareth doing damage and someone else healing made way more sense then the other way around since nobody in the group could come close to Gareth in terms of attack rate and damage rate. Even now the only person in the group who can come to out-damage Gareth is Nameless but that has only been in recent levels (as wizards become really powerful in that aspect at the highest levels). Gareth still has consistency and the ability to inflict consistent damage on all but flying targets.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How do you think Gareth has as good a caster level as the enemies we fight? Gareth is a 14th level caster, with practice spell caster. At level 20 his DC is 10+4 (wisdom) + spell level...Which of Shil's creatures are going to fail that save? Gareth could run up to a spellcaster & hold his attack, but then the creature would take a 5 foot step & cast his spell. How would that help the group? As for counter spelling...again you want the guy with a caster level that is vastly smaller then the group to try and go against a spellcaster that is at the groups level or better?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's called taking a guess and wanting to showboat. Oh and it's not 'just a Daelkyr'....more like 'just a Shil Daelkyr' <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Gareth puts his butt on the line many times. BTW - before you mock Gareth for charging into battle remember three things 1) he is a melee character it's what they do, 2) he's held off plenty of times at your request, and 3) Grabthar, your melee guy, charged into battle instead of going to my wizard who was going to CLW him....then grabthar got dropped. Welcome to the world of melee - we have t-shirts made up "I run, I hit, I fall down"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Each person has their own roles in the group. I don't think healing is dull/boring -but I agree it is not flashy. Being able to keep someone up is important. Then again I wouldn't expect Nameless to run up and smack someone with his dagger just because he can do it...that would be left to the melee group. I wouldn't expect Nameless to utilize UMD with a CLW wand...that would be better left to the best healers of the group. You would expect me to do something which Gareth is subpar at doing all in the name of "criticize people for something I am unwilling to do"? What's the point? We have specialists in the group and you are asking your specialists to do stuff other then what they are amazing at?</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Gareth = most consistent, and highest damaging character in the group. Gareth will only miss Aunty and Maul Tar on a roll of a 1.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Nameless = highest damaging and second most consistently hitting character in the group (Gareths attack rate is better then Nameless DC)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Korm = High damage dealer with poor hit rate, but the best healing in the group. He has poor AC, not that it will matter much in this battle.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Luna = Damage sponge, with best healing in the group (and at range), and great damage spells. Only now with the elemental monolith can she start to deal great damage, but nowhere near the levels of Korm, Nameless or Gareth</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Six = most mobile, highest AC, and most versatile character in the group - but doesn't excel at damage and can't heal (sans UMD). Great at buffing, and unless it is a crazy creature/scenario his tripping is so very nice.</li> </ul><p></p><p>That's our group. You really want one of the two best damage dealers focusing on healing?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Gareth can do one thing really well...melee damage, followed by resisting spells/effects, followed by hopefully taking the hits and being able to stand to get a heal so he can do it again next round. When Gareth does 150 dmg in a round it gains a lot of attention - the enemies try and take Gareth down and fast. The group can let Gareth go down, and then they lose the biggest gun. There have been a number of times Gareth went down and you sighed somewhere along the lines of "we are dead".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Exactly my point. Gareth is not a primary spellcaster...his spellcasting is good for buffing. I've had six years of practice with Gareth, and anytime I e-mailed Shil "what about this offensive spell" it was followed by Shil saying "stick to your melee, your DCs blow"...and he was right. I wanted to use the fun spells but don't because Gareth sucks at them. Gareth now has Holy Word...which would you prefer Gareth do this weekend. Holy word with his DC 21 save against aunty/maul tar, or would you prefer Gareth swing the Endless Blade? I'll let you make that call.</p><p></p><p>Gareth can do other things - he can cast damaging spells - and he does it poorly. He can, only recently, cast heal - but not as good as Luna/Korms. Plus if he heals the group loses out on massive damage output and Shil's monsters typically do more damage then Gareth can Heal. Gareth can also use planar travel spells, but the cleric version is terrible compared to greater teleport. As before, each character has their focus - Gareth's is not to heal. That's like me complaining that your Barbarian doesn't use UMD and CLW wand to heal the new campaign group.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I never said you don't plan, but you sure don't do it alone. Six comes up with lots of plans but we typically shy away from them because they are very defensive. Luna comes up with insane plans that even the forces of Xoriat have a brain fart over. Korm doesn't believe in plans - he just likes to swing at things. My goal is for us to have a plan for this final battle instead of just charging in. You have great ideas, so do I...wouldn't it be nice if we coordinated those ideas beforehand so both of us get to try them out? Instead of a last minute bark...also, instead of hoping someone might heal a group member have someone designated for when that need arises? Nobody wants to be down and out in any battle, especially the climax of this fun campaign.</p><p></p><p>Anyhow at some point we should take this private or stop because we are starting to scare the children.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Furby076, post: 5328760, member: 32161"] Really? Nearly as good as Luna or Korm? Gareth's healing capabilities were never as good as the rest of the group. Maybe at level 2. Right now Gareth is a 14th level caster, with practiced spell caster to be 17. Back when the best healers in the group could do cure critical Gareth could not. And again the math was as simple then as it is now - Gareth doing damage and someone else healing made way more sense then the other way around since nobody in the group could come close to Gareth in terms of attack rate and damage rate. Even now the only person in the group who can come to out-damage Gareth is Nameless but that has only been in recent levels (as wizards become really powerful in that aspect at the highest levels). Gareth still has consistency and the ability to inflict consistent damage on all but flying targets. How do you think Gareth has as good a caster level as the enemies we fight? Gareth is a 14th level caster, with practice spell caster. At level 20 his DC is 10+4 (wisdom) + spell level...Which of Shil's creatures are going to fail that save? Gareth could run up to a spellcaster & hold his attack, but then the creature would take a 5 foot step & cast his spell. How would that help the group? As for counter spelling...again you want the guy with a caster level that is vastly smaller then the group to try and go against a spellcaster that is at the groups level or better? That's called taking a guess and wanting to showboat. Oh and it's not 'just a Daelkyr'....more like 'just a Shil Daelkyr' :) Gareth puts his butt on the line many times. BTW - before you mock Gareth for charging into battle remember three things 1) he is a melee character it's what they do, 2) he's held off plenty of times at your request, and 3) Grabthar, your melee guy, charged into battle instead of going to my wizard who was going to CLW him....then grabthar got dropped. Welcome to the world of melee - we have t-shirts made up "I run, I hit, I fall down" Each person has their own roles in the group. I don't think healing is dull/boring -but I agree it is not flashy. Being able to keep someone up is important. Then again I wouldn't expect Nameless to run up and smack someone with his dagger just because he can do it...that would be left to the melee group. I wouldn't expect Nameless to utilize UMD with a CLW wand...that would be better left to the best healers of the group. You would expect me to do something which Gareth is subpar at doing all in the name of "criticize people for something I am unwilling to do"? What's the point? We have specialists in the group and you are asking your specialists to do stuff other then what they are amazing at? [LIST] [*]Gareth = most consistent, and highest damaging character in the group. Gareth will only miss Aunty and Maul Tar on a roll of a 1. [*]Nameless = highest damaging and second most consistently hitting character in the group (Gareths attack rate is better then Nameless DC) [*]Korm = High damage dealer with poor hit rate, but the best healing in the group. He has poor AC, not that it will matter much in this battle. [*]Luna = Damage sponge, with best healing in the group (and at range), and great damage spells. Only now with the elemental monolith can she start to deal great damage, but nowhere near the levels of Korm, Nameless or Gareth [*]Six = most mobile, highest AC, and most versatile character in the group - but doesn't excel at damage and can't heal (sans UMD). Great at buffing, and unless it is a crazy creature/scenario his tripping is so very nice. [/LIST] That's our group. You really want one of the two best damage dealers focusing on healing? Gareth can do one thing really well...melee damage, followed by resisting spells/effects, followed by hopefully taking the hits and being able to stand to get a heal so he can do it again next round. When Gareth does 150 dmg in a round it gains a lot of attention - the enemies try and take Gareth down and fast. The group can let Gareth go down, and then they lose the biggest gun. There have been a number of times Gareth went down and you sighed somewhere along the lines of "we are dead". Exactly my point. Gareth is not a primary spellcaster...his spellcasting is good for buffing. I've had six years of practice with Gareth, and anytime I e-mailed Shil "what about this offensive spell" it was followed by Shil saying "stick to your melee, your DCs blow"...and he was right. I wanted to use the fun spells but don't because Gareth sucks at them. Gareth now has Holy Word...which would you prefer Gareth do this weekend. Holy word with his DC 21 save against aunty/maul tar, or would you prefer Gareth swing the Endless Blade? I'll let you make that call. Gareth can do other things - he can cast damaging spells - and he does it poorly. He can, only recently, cast heal - but not as good as Luna/Korms. Plus if he heals the group loses out on massive damage output and Shil's monsters typically do more damage then Gareth can Heal. Gareth can also use planar travel spells, but the cleric version is terrible compared to greater teleport. As before, each character has their focus - Gareth's is not to heal. That's like me complaining that your Barbarian doesn't use UMD and CLW wand to heal the new campaign group. I never said you don't plan, but you sure don't do it alone. Six comes up with lots of plans but we typically shy away from them because they are very defensive. Luna comes up with insane plans that even the forces of Xoriat have a brain fart over. Korm doesn't believe in plans - he just likes to swing at things. My goal is for us to have a plan for this final battle instead of just charging in. You have great ideas, so do I...wouldn't it be nice if we coordinated those ideas beforehand so both of us get to try them out? Instead of a last minute bark...also, instead of hoping someone might heal a group member have someone designated for when that need arises? Nobody wants to be down and out in any battle, especially the climax of this fun campaign. Anyhow at some point we should take this private or stop because we are starting to scare the children. [/QUOTE]
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