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General Tabletop Discussion
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Should 5E Characters be MAD?
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6047757" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>I think the best approach is <em>not</em> to try and streamline this at all.</p><p></p><p>Just make sure that ALL six abilities are really useful but not absolutely mandatory in the game, so that having one or two low scores (negative mod) does not make the PC suck, but still hurts (to discourage stat-dumping).</p><p></p><p>Then, I agree that it's best if each class is not wholly defined by one score only. But how many exactly shouldn't matter. </p><p></p><p>I like that in 5ed you <em>can</em> have a low-Str <strong>Fighter </strong>thanks to the new rule that with finesse weapons your Dex bonus also applies to damage; this however doesn't mean that every Fighter should have both Str and Dex, but rather than should have <em>either</em> one with a good score. But at least it's an improvement over 3ed IMO. Then Deadly Strike grants heavy additional damage which doesn't depend on any ability score.</p><p></p><p>Spellcasters have a problem of their own. Besides their key mental ability score, how useful all other scores are depend on what they can compensate for with their spells. A <strong>Wizard</strong> doesn't need a decent Dex if she can cast powerful protective spells (for AC) and <em>Fly</em>; a <strong>Cleric</strong> doesn't need a decent Str if she can self-buff a lot. And so Cha isn't that useful when you have plenty of <em>charme</em> spells.</p><p></p><p>Also I think some of your estimations are more based on a certain traditional image rather than a real requirement. E.g. 3ed Barbarians didn't really need a high Constitution: their only thing affected by Con was Rage duration, but with the typical length of combat in 3ed even with a Constitution 10 the Rage would last 5 rounds and cover most fights. And Barbs didn't need a higher Con than Fighters for HP, since even with generally lighter armor they still got more HP from the HD. Barbarians always tend to have high Con more because of a certain image that they players want (the "Conan-type huge, tough savage warrior") rather than an absolute need. Similar thing for the Ranger, Wis for spells was definitely needed but Str and Dex were not necessarily needed both. OTOH the Paladin did indeed have own abilities based on Wis and others based on Cha, plus Str needed for combat (or Dex in the much rarer case of a ranged-fighting Pally) so they were really already a MAD class, and so was the Monk (once again because Str was needed for damage, Dex for defense, and Wis for special abilities).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 6047757, member: 1465"] I think the best approach is [I]not[/I] to try and streamline this at all. Just make sure that ALL six abilities are really useful but not absolutely mandatory in the game, so that having one or two low scores (negative mod) does not make the PC suck, but still hurts (to discourage stat-dumping). Then, I agree that it's best if each class is not wholly defined by one score only. But how many exactly shouldn't matter. I like that in 5ed you [I]can[/I] have a low-Str [B]Fighter [/B]thanks to the new rule that with finesse weapons your Dex bonus also applies to damage; this however doesn't mean that every Fighter should have both Str and Dex, but rather than should have [I]either[/I] one with a good score. But at least it's an improvement over 3ed IMO. Then Deadly Strike grants heavy additional damage which doesn't depend on any ability score. Spellcasters have a problem of their own. Besides their key mental ability score, how useful all other scores are depend on what they can compensate for with their spells. A [B]Wizard[/B] doesn't need a decent Dex if she can cast powerful protective spells (for AC) and [I]Fly[/I]; a [B]Cleric[/B] doesn't need a decent Str if she can self-buff a lot. And so Cha isn't that useful when you have plenty of [I]charme[/I] spells. Also I think some of your estimations are more based on a certain traditional image rather than a real requirement. E.g. 3ed Barbarians didn't really need a high Constitution: their only thing affected by Con was Rage duration, but with the typical length of combat in 3ed even with a Constitution 10 the Rage would last 5 rounds and cover most fights. And Barbs didn't need a higher Con than Fighters for HP, since even with generally lighter armor they still got more HP from the HD. Barbarians always tend to have high Con more because of a certain image that they players want (the "Conan-type huge, tough savage warrior") rather than an absolute need. Similar thing for the Ranger, Wis for spells was definitely needed but Str and Dex were not necessarily needed both. OTOH the Paladin did indeed have own abilities based on Wis and others based on Cha, plus Str needed for combat (or Dex in the much rarer case of a ranged-fighting Pally) so they were really already a MAD class, and so was the Monk (once again because Str was needed for damage, Dex for defense, and Wis for special abilities). [/QUOTE]
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