Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7591275" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>As I said upthread, I think that the rules in the Basic PDF are amibguous as between the two options, of <em>learning clues</em> or <em>understanding feelings and true intentions</em>.</p><p></p><p>But personally I find your threshold for violating player agency a bit hard to work out. I assume that you allow the GM to say things lilke "Cresting the hill, you see a large castle with 4 round towers" or "In front of you is an ogre holding a club. It looks angry." That sort of stuff is pretty banal FRPG narration. But it clearly carries implications for what a PC believes. (I mean, even if the PC suspects the castle is an illusion, s/he is still thinking "There is the appearance of a castle up ahead.")</p><p></p><p>Why is knowledge of the "external world" (and the concomitant beliefs) unproblematic, but knowledge of other minds an issue?</p><p></p><p>Another example that I thought of that makes it hard for me to see where you're drawing the line is this: when NPC speak to the PCs, I'm assuming that you directly utter, or perhaps report, their speech. You don't describe the phonic event that occurs and leave it for the players to interpret it as words carrying (I'm guessing English at your table) meanings.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure why linguistic intentions aren't (I'm assuming) treated as opaque, but deceptive intentions are.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: I saw this:</p><p></p><p>OK, so your view really is resting on a particular (in my opinion fairly contentious) view about epistemic access and the nature of knowledge.</p><p></p><p>(And I think it's doubly contentions in D&D, where illusions are farily common and hence when I crest the hill and see the castle with four round towers I can <em>believe</em> or <em>suspect</em> but not really <em>know</em> until I've touched it, cast Detect Illusion on it, etc.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7591275, member: 42582"] As I said upthread, I think that the rules in the Basic PDF are amibguous as between the two options, of [I]learning clues[/I] or [I]understanding feelings and true intentions[/I]. But personally I find your threshold for violating player agency a bit hard to work out. I assume that you allow the GM to say things lilke "Cresting the hill, you see a large castle with 4 round towers" or "In front of you is an ogre holding a club. It looks angry." That sort of stuff is pretty banal FRPG narration. But it clearly carries implications for what a PC believes. (I mean, even if the PC suspects the castle is an illusion, s/he is still thinking "There is the appearance of a castle up ahead.") Why is knowledge of the "external world" (and the concomitant beliefs) unproblematic, but knowledge of other minds an issue? Another example that I thought of that makes it hard for me to see where you're drawing the line is this: when NPC speak to the PCs, I'm assuming that you directly utter, or perhaps report, their speech. You don't describe the phonic event that occurs and leave it for the players to interpret it as words carrying (I'm guessing English at your table) meanings. I'm not sure why linguistic intentions aren't (I'm assuming) treated as opaque, but deceptive intentions are. EDIT: I saw this: OK, so your view really is resting on a particular (in my opinion fairly contentious) view about epistemic access and the nature of knowledge. (And I think it's doubly contentions in D&D, where illusions are farily common and hence when I crest the hill and see the castle with four round towers I can [I]believe[/I] or [I]suspect[/I] but not really [I]know[/I] until I've touched it, cast Detect Illusion on it, etc.) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
Top