Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7593566" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>Short of magical compulsion which is an exception to the rule, the player always determines what the character thinks, does, and says. The DM can only describe the environment and narrate the result of the adventurers' actions.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not the same thing as the DM telling a player, for example, that he or she must have the character act as if the NPC is lying (or telling the truth).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The dice are there to resolve uncertainty as to the outcome of a task proposed by the player when there's a meaningful consequence of failure. The DM determines whether or not there is uncertainty based on what the player has described as wanting to do. The player does not choose to make ability checks. That is solely the DM's call. If anything, it's not very smart play for a player to want to roll the dice as the d20 is very unpredictable. If success is the player's goal, then trying to avoid the dice is a better strategy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>An ability check is not a task.</p><p></p><p>The ability check, to which the Insight skill proficiency may apply, resolves uncertainty as to the task the player proposed. The task is described if you continue reading the entry for Insight - "...gleaning clues from body language, speech habits, and changes in mannerisms." It has everything to do with <em>observing</em> another creature. The DM is telling you what you observe, just like when he or she is describing the environment, not what your character thinks.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A "roll" is not a task and players can't choose to make ability checks. That is the DM's call and he or she makes that call when the task proposed by the player for the character has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure.</p><p></p><p>At least, that's what the rules say. You can choose to play it some other way, of course.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry, but none of that is true, except perhaps at your table (and probably others). The rules come into play when the DM says they do since they serve the DM and not the other way around. The "default" is that the players say what they want to do and the DM narrates the results. Sometimes, when certain criteria are met in the eyes of the DM, the DM calls for a roll. A character's "mechanical strengths and weaknesses" come into play if and when the player proposes a task that has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure, which they will do quite frequently if the player is portraying a bold adventurer confronting deadly perils. But otherwise, success, failure, and uncertainty are all completely in the control of the DM.</p><p></p><p>Out of curiosity, did you play much D&D 3.Xe or D&D 4e?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7593566, member: 97077"] Short of magical compulsion which is an exception to the rule, the player always determines what the character thinks, does, and says. The DM can only describe the environment and narrate the result of the adventurers' actions. That's not the same thing as the DM telling a player, for example, that he or she must have the character act as if the NPC is lying (or telling the truth). The dice are there to resolve uncertainty as to the outcome of a task proposed by the player when there's a meaningful consequence of failure. The DM determines whether or not there is uncertainty based on what the player has described as wanting to do. The player does not choose to make ability checks. That is solely the DM's call. If anything, it's not very smart play for a player to want to roll the dice as the d20 is very unpredictable. If success is the player's goal, then trying to avoid the dice is a better strategy. An ability check is not a task. The ability check, to which the Insight skill proficiency may apply, resolves uncertainty as to the task the player proposed. The task is described if you continue reading the entry for Insight - "...gleaning clues from body language, speech habits, and changes in mannerisms." It has everything to do with [I]observing[/I] another creature. The DM is telling you what you observe, just like when he or she is describing the environment, not what your character thinks. A "roll" is not a task and players can't choose to make ability checks. That is the DM's call and he or she makes that call when the task proposed by the player for the character has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure. At least, that's what the rules say. You can choose to play it some other way, of course. I'm sorry, but none of that is true, except perhaps at your table (and probably others). The rules come into play when the DM says they do since they serve the DM and not the other way around. The "default" is that the players say what they want to do and the DM narrates the results. Sometimes, when certain criteria are met in the eyes of the DM, the DM calls for a roll. A character's "mechanical strengths and weaknesses" come into play if and when the player proposes a task that has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure, which they will do quite frequently if the player is portraying a bold adventurer confronting deadly perils. But otherwise, success, failure, and uncertainty are all completely in the control of the DM. Out of curiosity, did you play much D&D 3.Xe or D&D 4e? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
Top