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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7593577" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?658495-Should-Insight-be-able-to-determine-if-an-NPC-is-lying&p=7589262&viewfull=1#post7589262" target="_blank">I voted "Yes" on the poll</a>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a common error people make, especially if they played D&D 3.Xe or D&D 4e or learned from people who come from those traditions. D&D 5e isn't like those games in many ways. You appear to be conflating a task with an ability check. As I stated in my previous posts a few times, a task and an ability check are not the same thing. A player can choose to have his or her character undertake a task, but a task may or may not involve an ability check. Whether there is an ability check is up to the DM, always, who has several criteria to help him or her determine if one is appropriate.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, the character determines that the NPC is exhibiting body language, speech habits, and changes in mannerisms that indicate untruthfulness. That is not telling the player how the character thinks or how it must act.</p><p></p><p>I did not avoid your previous question - it's just irrelevant. How I would decide to have my character act in the face of the outcome of a task to determine truthfulness isn't important. (Remember, a check is not a task, nor a task a check.) What's important in this discussion is who gets to decide how the character acts and that is always the player, short of magical compulsion.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The players have no relationship to the rules. They can only describe what they want to do. The DM then decides whether any rules apply to resolve those actions. Players might naturally act with the expectation that certain rules may apply (such as having your high-Strength character step up to engage in tasks for which a high Strength may be of benefit), but it's up to the DM ultimately.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't make any snarky comments, and I'm glad you won't either.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7593577, member: 97077"] [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?658495-Should-Insight-be-able-to-determine-if-an-NPC-is-lying&p=7589262&viewfull=1#post7589262"]I voted "Yes" on the poll[/URL]. This is a common error people make, especially if they played D&D 3.Xe or D&D 4e or learned from people who come from those traditions. D&D 5e isn't like those games in many ways. You appear to be conflating a task with an ability check. As I stated in my previous posts a few times, a task and an ability check are not the same thing. A player can choose to have his or her character undertake a task, but a task may or may not involve an ability check. Whether there is an ability check is up to the DM, always, who has several criteria to help him or her determine if one is appropriate. Yes, the character determines that the NPC is exhibiting body language, speech habits, and changes in mannerisms that indicate untruthfulness. That is not telling the player how the character thinks or how it must act. I did not avoid your previous question - it's just irrelevant. How I would decide to have my character act in the face of the outcome of a task to determine truthfulness isn't important. (Remember, a check is not a task, nor a task a check.) What's important in this discussion is who gets to decide how the character acts and that is always the player, short of magical compulsion. The players have no relationship to the rules. They can only describe what they want to do. The DM then decides whether any rules apply to resolve those actions. Players might naturally act with the expectation that certain rules may apply (such as having your high-Strength character step up to engage in tasks for which a high Strength may be of benefit), but it's up to the DM ultimately. I didn't make any snarky comments, and I'm glad you won't either. [/QUOTE]
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Should Insight be able to determine if an NPC is lying?
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