So, I know bonuses don't normally stack but, I can't diside if sizes bonuses stack because it makes sense of them to stack. So, a Druid turns into a bear, +2 str size. Sorcerer casts animal growth. Bear gets bigger bear gets stronger, +8 str. I don't think stacks but it would make sense to me if it would
Pathfinder 1E Size bonus stacking
- Thread starter cjr88
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billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
The sticking point here is that the target for animal growth is "one animal". That term animal refers to the target's type and your typical druid isn't an animal. Even if he uses wildshape to take the form of an animal, I believe he retains his own type and doesn't take on the animal type. That makes him still subject to effects that target his own type (most likely humanoid) and not subject to things that affect just the animal type.
Traveon Wyvernspur
First Post
I'd have to completely disagree with [MENTION=3400]billd91[/MENTION] here.
[h=4]Wild Shape (Su)[/h] At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.
A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)
Animal Growth - Says one animal as the target, it doesn't state specific TYPE, but even if animal is the type, you ARE an animal who can only make the sounds of that animal, you gain all of it's natural attacks, etc. You are in essence THAT animal and THAT type until you turn back to humanoid form. Basically this is a transmutation and when something is transmuted, it is changed completely thus you are changed completely from humanoid to animal.
By RAW, I'd allow it in my games as it's a no-brainer to me, but others might feel differently and that's their opinion.
[h=4]Wild Shape (Su)[/h] At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.
A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)
Animal Growth - Says one animal as the target, it doesn't state specific TYPE, but even if animal is the type, you ARE an animal who can only make the sounds of that animal, you gain all of it's natural attacks, etc. You are in essence THAT animal and THAT type until you turn back to humanoid form. Basically this is a transmutation and when something is transmuted, it is changed completely thus you are changed completely from humanoid to animal.
By RAW, I'd allow it in my games as it's a no-brainer to me, but others might feel differently and that's their opinion.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
IIRC, whether you take the creature's type varied between 3.0 and 3.5, just to make things more confusing.
You cannot Animal Growth yourself while wildshaped because polymorph effects do not stack, they overlap. This is true even if a wildshaped druid counts as an "animal" and is a valid target for wildshape. (This also means an odd cleric/druid combo could not wildshape and then use Righteous Might. Only one effect would apply.)
Note that Animal Growth gives size bonuses to Strength, and wildshape (emulating the Beast Shape spells) gives the same type of bonus. You couldn't get +14 Strength from Animal Growth and wildshape (Beast Shape III). Even if the DM allows both effects to "stack" you'll only get +8 Strength.
You cannot Animal Growth yourself while wildshaped because polymorph effects do not stack, they overlap. This is true even if a wildshaped druid counts as an "animal" and is a valid target for wildshape. (This also means an odd cleric/druid combo could not wildshape and then use Righteous Might. Only one effect would apply.)
Note that Animal Growth gives size bonuses to Strength, and wildshape (emulating the Beast Shape spells) gives the same type of bonus. You couldn't get +14 Strength from Animal Growth and wildshape (Beast Shape III). Even if the DM allows both effects to "stack" you'll only get +8 Strength.
Traveon Wyvernspur
First Post
Edit: I found this thread over on the Paizo forums and within it is a link to one of the developers and what they said about wild shape/polymorph having the person retain their type, etc. So RAW with Dev FAQ's I'd say no as per what PSI found below.
Last edited:
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Traveon Wyvernspur
First Post
Yep, you found it Psi. Now that I've seen that, I wouldn't allow it in my games because it specifically says no.
Polymorph: a polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form. In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.
If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately (see Table: Ability Adjustments from Size Changes), changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell.
Polymorph: a polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form. In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.
If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately (see Table: Ability Adjustments from Size Changes), changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell.
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