Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Skill Challenges: How Much Have They Improved?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 5198253" data-attributes="member: 3424"><p>This thread is in response to an issue raised by <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=58105" target="_blank"><em><strong><u>xechnao</u></strong></em></a>: <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/277442-ari-marmells-blog-house-rule-not-house-rule.html" target="_blank">here</a>: exactly how have skill challenges improved since they were first introduced?</p><p></p><p>While a lot has been written about skill challenges by a number of people (including, I should mention, <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/blogs/firelance/2102-musings-skill-challenges-three-questions-you-should-ask-before-you-run-one.html" target="_blank">myself</a> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" />), I'm going to focus on the additional tips on running skill challenges from the DDI articles by Mike Mearls and the skill challenge chapter of DMG2 (which actually reproduces most of the key information from the DDI articles).</p><p></p><p><strong><u>So What's New?</u></strong></p><p></p><p>Certainly a lot has been written about skill challenges since they were first introduced. The DDI articles comprise slightly more than 90 A4 pages in 12-point Times New Roman font.</p><p></p><p>Collectively, the articles and DMG2 cover several issues, including:</p><p></p><p>1. When not to run a skill challenge, i.e. when the subject of the skill challenge is too dull, when the skill challenge is too easy, when the situation in question should be handled with one or two individual or group skill checks or roleplaying, and when there are no consequences for failure.</p><p></p><p>2. The math behind skill challenge DCs and ways to challenge PCs with high skill modifiers.</p><p></p><p>3. How to run interesting skill challenges. On a personal note, I particularly like the following two pieces of advice: you need a variety of options to make a skill challenge interesting, and each skill check in a challenge should do one of the following: introduce a new option that the PCs can pursue, a path to success they didn't know existed; change the situation, such as by sending the PCs to a new location, introducing a new NPC, or adding a complication; or grant the players a tangible repercussion for the check's success or failure that influences their subsequent decisions. </p><p></p><p>4. Ways to get more players involved in a skill challenge, e.g. mixing a skill challenge with combat, splitting the party and capping the number of successes that can be earned from a specific skill.</p><p></p><p>5. How to deal with issues that arise in play such as recovering from a boring skill challenges and when not to roll the dice.</p><p></p><p>6. Several sample skill challenges that contain a variety of new approaches and mechanics, including group skill checks and random events.</p><p></p><p><strong><u>So What's Still Missing?</u></strong></p><p></p><p>At this point, I still have two key criticisms of the additional material on skill challenges:</p><p></p><p>First, most of what has been written has been in the form of DM advice or sample skill challenges. While the sample skill challenges can sometimes be used without modification, in many cases, setting up a good skill challenge will be more labor-intensive for the DM than picking a group of monsters out of a Monster Manual. It is probably even more work than creating a unique monster with unique powers. Hence, while the DM has been given more advice on what to do and what not to do, coming up with a good skill challenge is still quite a complex task. However, to be fair, it may be impossible to come up with simple rules to develop a good skill challenge due to the nature of non-combat challenges, which tend to be more open-ended and complex than combat.</p><p></p><p>Second, while it has been touched on in a paragraph on time limits and a few sample skill challenges, I feel that not enough attention has been paid to presenting alternate failure conditions apart from the "three failures" model. IMO, the "three failures" model is one of the key factors that discourages players from participating in skill challenges since a failed skill check often results in an actual setback rather than simply a lack of progress.</p><p></p><p>What are your thoughts?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FireLance, post: 5198253, member: 3424"] This thread is in response to an issue raised by [URL=http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=58105][I][B][U]xechnao[/U][/B][/I][/URL]: [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/277442-ari-marmells-blog-house-rule-not-house-rule.html"]here[/URL]: exactly how have skill challenges improved since they were first introduced? While a lot has been written about skill challenges by a number of people (including, I should mention, [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/blogs/firelance/2102-musings-skill-challenges-three-questions-you-should-ask-before-you-run-one.html"]myself[/URL] ;)), I'm going to focus on the additional tips on running skill challenges from the DDI articles by Mike Mearls and the skill challenge chapter of DMG2 (which actually reproduces most of the key information from the DDI articles). [B][U]So What's New?[/U][/B] Certainly a lot has been written about skill challenges since they were first introduced. The DDI articles comprise slightly more than 90 A4 pages in 12-point Times New Roman font. Collectively, the articles and DMG2 cover several issues, including: 1. When not to run a skill challenge, i.e. when the subject of the skill challenge is too dull, when the skill challenge is too easy, when the situation in question should be handled with one or two individual or group skill checks or roleplaying, and when there are no consequences for failure. 2. The math behind skill challenge DCs and ways to challenge PCs with high skill modifiers. 3. How to run interesting skill challenges. On a personal note, I particularly like the following two pieces of advice: you need a variety of options to make a skill challenge interesting, and each skill check in a challenge should do one of the following: introduce a new option that the PCs can pursue, a path to success they didn't know existed; change the situation, such as by sending the PCs to a new location, introducing a new NPC, or adding a complication; or grant the players a tangible repercussion for the check's success or failure that influences their subsequent decisions. 4. Ways to get more players involved in a skill challenge, e.g. mixing a skill challenge with combat, splitting the party and capping the number of successes that can be earned from a specific skill. 5. How to deal with issues that arise in play such as recovering from a boring skill challenges and when not to roll the dice. 6. Several sample skill challenges that contain a variety of new approaches and mechanics, including group skill checks and random events. [B][U]So What's Still Missing?[/U][/B] At this point, I still have two key criticisms of the additional material on skill challenges: First, most of what has been written has been in the form of DM advice or sample skill challenges. While the sample skill challenges can sometimes be used without modification, in many cases, setting up a good skill challenge will be more labor-intensive for the DM than picking a group of monsters out of a Monster Manual. It is probably even more work than creating a unique monster with unique powers. Hence, while the DM has been given more advice on what to do and what not to do, coming up with a good skill challenge is still quite a complex task. However, to be fair, it may be impossible to come up with simple rules to develop a good skill challenge due to the nature of non-combat challenges, which tend to be more open-ended and complex than combat. Second, while it has been touched on in a paragraph on time limits and a few sample skill challenges, I feel that not enough attention has been paid to presenting alternate failure conditions apart from the "three failures" model. IMO, the "three failures" model is one of the key factors that discourages players from participating in skill challenges since a failed skill check often results in an actual setback rather than simply a lack of progress. What are your thoughts? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Skill Challenges: How Much Have They Improved?
Top