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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Skill Challenges: How Much Have They Improved?
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<blockquote data-quote="smerwin29" data-source="post: 5199095" data-attributes="member: 15050"><p>I think it is also important to make a distinction between the type of skill challenge it is. I've been working with them since before the 4e rules were finalized, so I have seen them evolve significantly through their design. I am always an over-simplifier, so I like to think of them in 2 categories: "mechanics-focused" and "roleplay focused."</p><p></p><p>The mechanics-focused ones are those that generally happen in a very short time frame and often while something else is happening. An example would be the "Closing the Portal" skill challenge described in DMG2. In this way, the skill challenge is an extension of the combat, and the PCs should know they are in a skill challenge. The actions needed to try each skill should be clear so that the PCs can use tactics and strategy to get the right people doing the right jobs. Disarming traps and the like also fall into this category. For me, I like to create very focused and specific lists of skills that can be used, and sometimes even restrict the order in which they can be used.</p><p></p><p>The "roleplay-focused" skill challenges those that take place over a longer period of time and/or deal with less specific situations (social skill challenges or investigations being fitting examples). For these I almost never tell the PCs they are in a skill challenge, and I let them create their own methods of getting from point A to point B. For these I like to write the skill challenge more as a guide rather than as a blueprint, because the players should have the ability to roleplay and explore different paths of success. Of course there can be plently of overlap between the two, but the distinction helps me tackle them as a writer and as a DM.</p><p></p><p>What worries me when I discuss skill challenges with people is that I hear a lot of absolutes ("the PCs should never know they are in a skill challenge") when there is a time and a place for just about anything, depending on the skill challenge. I just completed an adventure that is meant to be run as a tournament, with parties getting scores for how they do in combat, skill challenges, etc. With that necessity guiding design, I had to create the skill challenge in such a way that it would run similarly at each table. So my mandate was the make the skill challenge fun and interesting, while at the same time making it run in such a way that the efforts could be compared from one group to the next. In doing so, I had to break a lot of what I have seen as "the rules" of how to create a skill challenge. It's like what jazz musician Charlie Parker once told a class of students: "Learn all the basics until you have it down--then forget all that **** and just play." I guess we'll see if it works. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>What I try to tell the writers who I have worked with in the 40+ 4e adventures I have designed/developed/edited/playtested is that a skill challenge is nothing different than what good writers and DMs have always done. The skill challenge is just a way to codify it, forcing them to actually think through all of the options and therefore getting a better idea of what the PCs might do and what the results of success or failure might be.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="smerwin29, post: 5199095, member: 15050"] I think it is also important to make a distinction between the type of skill challenge it is. I've been working with them since before the 4e rules were finalized, so I have seen them evolve significantly through their design. I am always an over-simplifier, so I like to think of them in 2 categories: "mechanics-focused" and "roleplay focused." The mechanics-focused ones are those that generally happen in a very short time frame and often while something else is happening. An example would be the "Closing the Portal" skill challenge described in DMG2. In this way, the skill challenge is an extension of the combat, and the PCs should know they are in a skill challenge. The actions needed to try each skill should be clear so that the PCs can use tactics and strategy to get the right people doing the right jobs. Disarming traps and the like also fall into this category. For me, I like to create very focused and specific lists of skills that can be used, and sometimes even restrict the order in which they can be used. The "roleplay-focused" skill challenges those that take place over a longer period of time and/or deal with less specific situations (social skill challenges or investigations being fitting examples). For these I almost never tell the PCs they are in a skill challenge, and I let them create their own methods of getting from point A to point B. For these I like to write the skill challenge more as a guide rather than as a blueprint, because the players should have the ability to roleplay and explore different paths of success. Of course there can be plently of overlap between the two, but the distinction helps me tackle them as a writer and as a DM. What worries me when I discuss skill challenges with people is that I hear a lot of absolutes ("the PCs should never know they are in a skill challenge") when there is a time and a place for just about anything, depending on the skill challenge. I just completed an adventure that is meant to be run as a tournament, with parties getting scores for how they do in combat, skill challenges, etc. With that necessity guiding design, I had to create the skill challenge in such a way that it would run similarly at each table. So my mandate was the make the skill challenge fun and interesting, while at the same time making it run in such a way that the efforts could be compared from one group to the next. In doing so, I had to break a lot of what I have seen as "the rules" of how to create a skill challenge. It's like what jazz musician Charlie Parker once told a class of students: "Learn all the basics until you have it down--then forget all that **** and just play." I guess we'll see if it works. :-) What I try to tell the writers who I have worked with in the 40+ 4e adventures I have designed/developed/edited/playtested is that a skill challenge is nothing different than what good writers and DMs have always done. The skill challenge is just a way to codify it, forcing them to actually think through all of the options and therefore getting a better idea of what the PCs might do and what the results of success or failure might be. [/QUOTE]
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