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Skill Challenges: How Much Have They Improved?
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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 5203645" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>A lot of good conversation here.</p><p></p><p>From a mechanical perspective, I feel that skill challenges have come a long way. Whether you prefer the new versions that WOTC has put out, or one of the good alternative systems out there, I think the system is now solid enough to work (which I did not feel at its inception).</p><p></p><p></p><p>So to me, the open question that remains is: "Does the skill challenge mechanic perform its intended function?".</p><p></p><p>Having used skill challenges over time, I have found that there are certain areas where skill challenges do well, but others where I think they detract from the game.</p><p></p><p>I have found them very useful for investigative or research type adventures, but I do not like using them for diplomacy/heavy role play scenes. Research Adventures by their nature have an embedded structure in their flavor. You work to acquire facts, if you pass you get the facts, if you don't you don't. Retries would naturally indicate more time, or moving on to a new source of information. Further, research tasks are more hands off for players generally. Players tell the DM what they are looking for, the DM describes what they find. The important piece are the players choices moreso than their descriptions.</p><p></p><p>For roleplaying type tasks, its a bit different. Ultimately goals can be more subtle as are the consequences. Failure might mean I don't get what I want, it might mean I anger someone, it might mean I made the wrong ally, etc. Further, players often get a lot of satisfaction out of the actual participation of the task. Its not just about obtaining your ultimate goal, the roleplaying itself is part of the fun...which unlike a research task is constant active participation. The skill challenge system encourages you to break up that roleplaying into discrete packages, which I often finds spoilers the mood.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In my mind, I think the original flaw of the skill challenge concept is it tries to apply a single model to a wide array of different challenge types...several of which are very different from each other, and some of which aren't really good fits for skill challenges at all.</p><p></p><p>To give an example, one of the common challenges of a typical DM adventure is "rogue scouting". I'm sure many have had the campaign with the rogue who wants to do roguish things. He's got the good perception and stealth and so rightly believes he should scout for the party.</p><p></p><p>Well...rogue scouting can be a big time sink if you let it. How many stealth checks should he make? What constitutes a failure, what indicates he finds something big, etc.</p><p></p><p>If WOTC were to go back and "do it again" I would love it if they had created a "scouting skill challenge". But by that I don't mean use the generic skill challenge template and then tweak it for scouting...I mean create a skill challenge mini system designed specifically for the intricacies of scouting.</p><p></p><p>In this way the DM is provided 3-4 subsystems designed for some of the DM headaches that come up quite a lot (like scouting). DMs would continue to use the loose skill system for most of their needs...and over time if there were constant tasks that kept coming up in a lot of games WOTC might create a new skill challenge system specifically for that task.</p><p></p><p>In my ideal world anyway<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 5203645, member: 5889"] A lot of good conversation here. From a mechanical perspective, I feel that skill challenges have come a long way. Whether you prefer the new versions that WOTC has put out, or one of the good alternative systems out there, I think the system is now solid enough to work (which I did not feel at its inception). So to me, the open question that remains is: "Does the skill challenge mechanic perform its intended function?". Having used skill challenges over time, I have found that there are certain areas where skill challenges do well, but others where I think they detract from the game. I have found them very useful for investigative or research type adventures, but I do not like using them for diplomacy/heavy role play scenes. Research Adventures by their nature have an embedded structure in their flavor. You work to acquire facts, if you pass you get the facts, if you don't you don't. Retries would naturally indicate more time, or moving on to a new source of information. Further, research tasks are more hands off for players generally. Players tell the DM what they are looking for, the DM describes what they find. The important piece are the players choices moreso than their descriptions. For roleplaying type tasks, its a bit different. Ultimately goals can be more subtle as are the consequences. Failure might mean I don't get what I want, it might mean I anger someone, it might mean I made the wrong ally, etc. Further, players often get a lot of satisfaction out of the actual participation of the task. Its not just about obtaining your ultimate goal, the roleplaying itself is part of the fun...which unlike a research task is constant active participation. The skill challenge system encourages you to break up that roleplaying into discrete packages, which I often finds spoilers the mood. In my mind, I think the original flaw of the skill challenge concept is it tries to apply a single model to a wide array of different challenge types...several of which are very different from each other, and some of which aren't really good fits for skill challenges at all. To give an example, one of the common challenges of a typical DM adventure is "rogue scouting". I'm sure many have had the campaign with the rogue who wants to do roguish things. He's got the good perception and stealth and so rightly believes he should scout for the party. Well...rogue scouting can be a big time sink if you let it. How many stealth checks should he make? What constitutes a failure, what indicates he finds something big, etc. If WOTC were to go back and "do it again" I would love it if they had created a "scouting skill challenge". But by that I don't mean use the generic skill challenge template and then tweak it for scouting...I mean create a skill challenge mini system designed specifically for the intricacies of scouting. In this way the DM is provided 3-4 subsystems designed for some of the DM headaches that come up quite a lot (like scouting). DMs would continue to use the loose skill system for most of their needs...and over time if there were constant tasks that kept coming up in a lot of games WOTC might create a new skill challenge system specifically for that task. In my ideal world anyway:) [/QUOTE]
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