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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Skill Challenges in D&D 3.5
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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 7343901" data-attributes="member: 6669384"><p>Well, contribute what you can.</p><p></p><p>Lets talk about Skill DCs and CR for the challenge.</p><p></p><p>The standard for a common or casual success on a skill check is a 10. 15 for some that are supposed to be an actual challenge. So let's start there.</p><p></p><p>To raise the CR of the challenge, should we standardize on higher DCs, or more checks?</p><p></p><p>In our "Track the enemy across the desert" example, the Survival check DC for tracking starts with a base number derived from the terrain. "Desert" can be a sandy Sahara type place, or baked clay type soil, or anything in between, so we can vary that base DC from 5 to 20.</p><p></p><p>After that bonuses and penalties can apply based on the size and number of creatures, the amount of time since they passed, and weather conditions, giving us the ability to fine tune the DC by just about any amount we want.</p><p></p><p>Tiny or diminutive creature is +8 to the DC, every day that's passed adds another +1, any rain adds +1 per hour of rain, a covering of snow (or presumably blown sand) adds 10. </p><p></p><p>So what would we like the DC to be for a CR1 check. What should it be for a CR 5 check? CR 10?</p><p></p><p>Presume someone tries to substitute a skill, such as Knowledge Geography or even Knowledge Local, to deduce where the enemy might be heading? Creativity certainly should count for something.</p><p></p><p>Again, we can vary the DC up or down from our Survival base, but I don't think it should be more than five either way.</p><p></p><p>Now consider Endurance checks. Easier if the party moves after dark (Horses, it turns out, have low light vision). At the same time "Poor Visibility" adds to the Tracking DC, per the rules.</p><p></p><p>Broadening this from the one example, each Skill Challenge should have a Primary skill check , the main goal of the challenge. The DC for that sets the tone for the rest.</p><p></p><p>Secondary skill checks in the challenge should have lower DCs. I'm thinking that there should be at least one Secondary check involved per X points of the Primary check's DC.</p><p></p><p>So what is X? 3? 5?</p><p></p><p>In a simple Tracking challenge the Primary DC should be 15. Endurance or Ride *AND* Handle Animal would be a secondary. That makes me think the secondaries would be one per Primary DC - 10 / 5. So our DC 15 simple challenge would have one secondary. A DC 20 primary should have two secondaries. </p><p></p><p>A basic trapped door in a dungeon could then be expressed as a Skill Challenge: Search is the Primary, to find it. Disable Device would be a Secondary, as would Sleight of Hand/Open Locks. Magical traps might call for a Knowledge Arcana check, so the party knows what kind of cover or precautions they need to take.</p><p></p><p>Note that the Search DC could be relatively easy, say a 15 or 20, while the Disable and Open DCs could be higher. (Any lock that can be opened on a 20 or less isn't really locked, since a minimally skilled Rogue can Take 20 and get it every time.)</p><p></p><p>Thoughts? Am I off on a wrong track?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 7343901, member: 6669384"] Well, contribute what you can. Lets talk about Skill DCs and CR for the challenge. The standard for a common or casual success on a skill check is a 10. 15 for some that are supposed to be an actual challenge. So let's start there. To raise the CR of the challenge, should we standardize on higher DCs, or more checks? In our "Track the enemy across the desert" example, the Survival check DC for tracking starts with a base number derived from the terrain. "Desert" can be a sandy Sahara type place, or baked clay type soil, or anything in between, so we can vary that base DC from 5 to 20. After that bonuses and penalties can apply based on the size and number of creatures, the amount of time since they passed, and weather conditions, giving us the ability to fine tune the DC by just about any amount we want. Tiny or diminutive creature is +8 to the DC, every day that's passed adds another +1, any rain adds +1 per hour of rain, a covering of snow (or presumably blown sand) adds 10. So what would we like the DC to be for a CR1 check. What should it be for a CR 5 check? CR 10? Presume someone tries to substitute a skill, such as Knowledge Geography or even Knowledge Local, to deduce where the enemy might be heading? Creativity certainly should count for something. Again, we can vary the DC up or down from our Survival base, but I don't think it should be more than five either way. Now consider Endurance checks. Easier if the party moves after dark (Horses, it turns out, have low light vision). At the same time "Poor Visibility" adds to the Tracking DC, per the rules. Broadening this from the one example, each Skill Challenge should have a Primary skill check , the main goal of the challenge. The DC for that sets the tone for the rest. Secondary skill checks in the challenge should have lower DCs. I'm thinking that there should be at least one Secondary check involved per X points of the Primary check's DC. So what is X? 3? 5? In a simple Tracking challenge the Primary DC should be 15. Endurance or Ride *AND* Handle Animal would be a secondary. That makes me think the secondaries would be one per Primary DC - 10 / 5. So our DC 15 simple challenge would have one secondary. A DC 20 primary should have two secondaries. A basic trapped door in a dungeon could then be expressed as a Skill Challenge: Search is the Primary, to find it. Disable Device would be a Secondary, as would Sleight of Hand/Open Locks. Magical traps might call for a Knowledge Arcana check, so the party knows what kind of cover or precautions they need to take. Note that the Search DC could be relatively easy, say a 15 or 20, while the Disable and Open DCs could be higher. (Any lock that can be opened on a 20 or less isn't really locked, since a minimally skilled Rogue can Take 20 and get it every time.) Thoughts? Am I off on a wrong track? [/QUOTE]
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