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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Skill Challenges in D&D 3.5
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<blockquote data-quote="Teemu" data-source="post: 7347707" data-attributes="member: 30788"><p>Isn't this only exacerbated in 3.5? If you don't put ranks in a skill, you're not getting any better. In 4e, you at least get half your level to the check, even if you lack a good ability modifier. In 3.5, if you lack the ranks, you're incompetent compared to someone with the ranks (especially with skills that can only be used trained), and this issue becomes bigger and bigger at higher levels. </p><p></p><p>Another problem is setting the DCs. In 4e, the worst in the party at climbing or bluffing will have a slim but a fair chance at attempting a moderate DC skill check, and that's because the DCs and the skill bonuses advance with some degree of respect to one another. In 3.5, a level 8 PC with full ranks in a skill, a fair or good ability modifier, and a skill-boosting magic item (plentiful and stronger in 3.5) will pretty much auto-succeed on checks that an untrained PC will have a 5%-10% chance of passing -- sometimes 0% because a natural 20 isn't a guaranteed success in skill checks. Thus, what could possibly be a "moderate" or "difficult" DC in 3.5, when the gap between the untrained and the specialist is so huge?</p><p></p><p>I've thought about implementing 4e-style skill challenges in my 3.5 game, but this issue with the DCs and the way the good keep getting better and the bad keep getting (comparatively) worse cause it to be too much of a hassle. A very real problem with the first iterations of 4e skill challenges was that the chance of success was too low in longer challenges, all thanks to poorly thought out skill DCs. In 3.5, it's next to impossible to set DCs that stay fair and robust from level 1 to 10 and to 20 -- the same issue the early 4e version had would only be magnified.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Teemu, post: 7347707, member: 30788"] Isn't this only exacerbated in 3.5? If you don't put ranks in a skill, you're not getting any better. In 4e, you at least get half your level to the check, even if you lack a good ability modifier. In 3.5, if you lack the ranks, you're incompetent compared to someone with the ranks (especially with skills that can only be used trained), and this issue becomes bigger and bigger at higher levels. Another problem is setting the DCs. In 4e, the worst in the party at climbing or bluffing will have a slim but a fair chance at attempting a moderate DC skill check, and that's because the DCs and the skill bonuses advance with some degree of respect to one another. In 3.5, a level 8 PC with full ranks in a skill, a fair or good ability modifier, and a skill-boosting magic item (plentiful and stronger in 3.5) will pretty much auto-succeed on checks that an untrained PC will have a 5%-10% chance of passing -- sometimes 0% because a natural 20 isn't a guaranteed success in skill checks. Thus, what could possibly be a "moderate" or "difficult" DC in 3.5, when the gap between the untrained and the specialist is so huge? I've thought about implementing 4e-style skill challenges in my 3.5 game, but this issue with the DCs and the way the good keep getting better and the bad keep getting (comparatively) worse cause it to be too much of a hassle. A very real problem with the first iterations of 4e skill challenges was that the chance of success was too low in longer challenges, all thanks to poorly thought out skill DCs. In 3.5, it's next to impossible to set DCs that stay fair and robust from level 1 to 10 and to 20 -- the same issue the early 4e version had would only be magnified. [/QUOTE]
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