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<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7533855" data-attributes="member: 6880599"><p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><y point was not "give players what they want when they succeed".</span></span></p><p><strong>That is not what I said</strong>. <strong>The player gets the roll 100% but the player making the check never determines the out come. The target does.</strong> So a request for the Kings land my never equal a King giving lands away however, a <u>failure</u> might insult the King starting a fight and a <u>success</u> might some how gain the admiration of the King resulting in an opportunity to gain favor or a prize. <strong>Recognizing a success</strong> doesn't mean giving the player exactly what they want any more than <strong>recognizing a failure</strong> doesn't have to always mean the player fails their intended goal. Example, a barbarian fails a strength test with a natural 1+5 on a DC10 check to open an old wooden door, perhaps you thought the test trivial and you would have auto succeeded the test so with a role you let the door open anyway but because of the failed roll they open the door with a knocking it off the hinges tripping over it and falling to the ground prone in front of the guard they were trying to surprise. They failed to get the surprise which was the intended goal but the actually succeeded in getting the door open which was the test. <strong><u>The Key is that they are allowed the test in which their selection of skills and attributes matters so that player agency for choice and character design impacts out comes</u></strong><p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">. The player choice to try to convince the King to do something stupid was a dangerous risk and for a less persuasive party member would likely end badly if sincere, while a per persuasive party member might role a success which would result a positive or at least not a bad out come. The player actually made two choices here one to risk insult to king and another to have a persuasive character who might get away with such things and playing that out is the role-playing part of this game. If an unskill player tries the same thing they have the agency to try but take on much higher risk, <strong>so even if the skill is not reflected in success it can still be reflected in risk mitigation</strong>, <strong>but a roll has to take place for that to work</strong>.</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 7533855, member: 6880599"] [LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma]<y point was not "give players what they want when they succeed".[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT][B]That is not what I said[/B]. [B]The player gets the roll 100% but the player making the check never determines the out come. The target does.[/B] So a request for the Kings land my never equal a King giving lands away however, a [U]failure[/U] might insult the King starting a fight and a [U]success[/U] might some how gain the admiration of the King resulting in an opportunity to gain favor or a prize. [B]Recognizing a success[/B] doesn't mean giving the player exactly what they want any more than [B]recognizing a failure[/B] doesn't have to always mean the player fails their intended goal. Example, a barbarian fails a strength test with a natural 1+5 on a DC10 check to open an old wooden door, perhaps you thought the test trivial and you would have auto succeeded the test so with a role you let the door open anyway but because of the failed roll they open the door with a knocking it off the hinges tripping over it and falling to the ground prone in front of the guard they were trying to surprise. They failed to get the surprise which was the intended goal but the actually succeeded in getting the door open which was the test. [B][U]The Key is that they are allowed the test in which their selection of skills and attributes matters so that player agency for choice and character design impacts out comes[/U][/B][LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma]. The player choice to try to convince the King to do something stupid was a dangerous risk and for a less persuasive party member would likely end badly if sincere, while a per persuasive party member might role a success which would result a positive or at least not a bad out come. The player actually made two choices here one to risk insult to king and another to have a persuasive character who might get away with such things and playing that out is the role-playing part of this game. If an unskill player tries the same thing they have the agency to try but take on much higher risk, [B]so even if the skill is not reflected in success it can still be reflected in risk mitigation[/B], [B]but a roll has to take place for that to work[/B].[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT] [/QUOTE]
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