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Skills used by players on other players.
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7534121" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>How does following the rules mean it's a loss of player agency by DM fiat? It's not DM Fiat to enforce attack rolls, or skill checks, or any other roll. DM fiat is <em>changing the rules </em>based on the DM's desire. The opposite of what you're saying. </p><p></p><p>I don't see the difference in a PC using persuasion on another PC by following the skill check rules, and a PC wrestling another PC using the established grappling rules.</p><p></p><p>Would the player in question here with the barbarian who disagrees they should have to be persuaded agree that if his PC wanted to arm wrestle the wizard PC, then the player for the wizard to be able to say after failing the roll, "Sorry, but that's not right. Bill can't force my PC to lose if I don't want, even if he's super strong, my PC is really weak, and I failed the roll. So he doesn't beat me. That's taking away my player agency."</p><p></p><p>I doubt it. I know there's an unwritten social rule that you don't mess with other players' PCs. That's a fast way to get people to stop playing together. However, it's a player issue, not a game issue at all. Part of me wants to say, "If you don't want your barbarian to be persuaded, then don't use INT and WIS as your dump stat." Stat allotment is all about deciding risks vs rewards in what you want. Either way, there's nothing in the game itself that's at issue here. It's the behavior of the players that's causing the issues</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7534121, member: 15700"] How does following the rules mean it's a loss of player agency by DM fiat? It's not DM Fiat to enforce attack rolls, or skill checks, or any other roll. DM fiat is [I]changing the rules [/I]based on the DM's desire. The opposite of what you're saying. I don't see the difference in a PC using persuasion on another PC by following the skill check rules, and a PC wrestling another PC using the established grappling rules. Would the player in question here with the barbarian who disagrees they should have to be persuaded agree that if his PC wanted to arm wrestle the wizard PC, then the player for the wizard to be able to say after failing the roll, "Sorry, but that's not right. Bill can't force my PC to lose if I don't want, even if he's super strong, my PC is really weak, and I failed the roll. So he doesn't beat me. That's taking away my player agency." I doubt it. I know there's an unwritten social rule that you don't mess with other players' PCs. That's a fast way to get people to stop playing together. However, it's a player issue, not a game issue at all. Part of me wants to say, "If you don't want your barbarian to be persuaded, then don't use INT and WIS as your dump stat." Stat allotment is all about deciding risks vs rewards in what you want. Either way, there's nothing in the game itself that's at issue here. It's the behavior of the players that's causing the issues [/QUOTE]
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