Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Skills used by players on other players.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7534238" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>You’re skipping a step. The system 5e offers to resolve this is not <em>merely</em> a Charisma (deception) check vs a Wisdom (Insight) check. It is that the DM first evaluates whether or not the attempt to discern whether or not the being in question is lying has a possibility of success, a possibility of failure, and a cost or consequence for failure. If it does, then the DM calls for a roll to resolve the uncertainty, of which Charisma (Deception) vs Wisdom (Insight) is one possible example. Otherwise, the DM simply narrates the results, since they are not uncertain.</p><p></p><p>If you look at the whole system, instead of skipping the step where the possibility of and consequences for the action’s success and failure are evaluated, then it is clear that this system applies whether the lying being is NPC or PC.</p><p></p><p>There is also the separate issue of who is the active party. To me, the being telling the lie is the one taking action, not PC being lied to. So, really, what I would be evaluating is the possibility that the beings words (their approach) succeed at deceiving the PC (their goal). If the being is an NPC with the magical ability to tell undetectable lies, the action succeeds, no roll required. If the being has a flaw that makes them a terrible liar, the action might fail, no roll required. If the being is a fellow PC, then I would ask the player of the PC being lied to if the lie being told has a reasonable chance of deceiving their character or not. To do otherwise would be to make an exception to the rule that the player decides how their character thinks and acts. In either case, if it is determined that the lie does have a reasonable chance of succeeding and a reasonable chance of failing at deceiving the PC, then I would call for a roll of some kind to be made, possibly with input from the players to help determine what roll would be most appropriate. If the roll results in success, then I allow the player to decide whether their character believes what they are being told or not. To tell them they <em>must</em> believe it would again be to make an exception to the rule that the player decides how their character thinks and acts. If the roll results in failure, then I tell the player that the being is obviously lying.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 7534238, member: 6779196"] You’re skipping a step. The system 5e offers to resolve this is not [I]merely[/I] a Charisma (deception) check vs a Wisdom (Insight) check. It is that the DM first evaluates whether or not the attempt to discern whether or not the being in question is lying has a possibility of success, a possibility of failure, and a cost or consequence for failure. If it does, then the DM calls for a roll to resolve the uncertainty, of which Charisma (Deception) vs Wisdom (Insight) is one possible example. Otherwise, the DM simply narrates the results, since they are not uncertain. If you look at the whole system, instead of skipping the step where the possibility of and consequences for the action’s success and failure are evaluated, then it is clear that this system applies whether the lying being is NPC or PC. There is also the separate issue of who is the active party. To me, the being telling the lie is the one taking action, not PC being lied to. So, really, what I would be evaluating is the possibility that the beings words (their approach) succeed at deceiving the PC (their goal). If the being is an NPC with the magical ability to tell undetectable lies, the action succeeds, no roll required. If the being has a flaw that makes them a terrible liar, the action might fail, no roll required. If the being is a fellow PC, then I would ask the player of the PC being lied to if the lie being told has a reasonable chance of deceiving their character or not. To do otherwise would be to make an exception to the rule that the player decides how their character thinks and acts. In either case, if it is determined that the lie does have a reasonable chance of succeeding and a reasonable chance of failing at deceiving the PC, then I would call for a roll of some kind to be made, possibly with input from the players to help determine what roll would be most appropriate. If the roll results in success, then I allow the player to decide whether their character believes what they are being told or not. To tell them they [i]must[/i] believe it would again be to make an exception to the rule that the player decides how their character thinks and acts. If the roll results in failure, then I tell the player that the being is obviously lying. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Skills used by players on other players.
Top