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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7534358" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>Sorry about that. Without the information you couldn't make sense of it, when you didn't address it at all it felt like you had sidestepped the part of the post that showed a scenario outside what you were talking about.</p><p></p><p>Here's where I think the big difference is. There are times that, as a DM, I see the need to adjudicate the results of a skill roll I have asked for in order for me to properly fulfill the duty of the DM to describe the environment. The environment includes information that can differ based on your character sheet, such as Darkvision, passive Perception and passive Insight. This is not to tell the player what the character things, but to give the player the information that the character should get.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes, this information comes from other PCs. Including tasks they are doing that would generate a dex (stealth) or charisma (deception) if you were attempting against an NPC. (Or another PC at my table.) </p><p></p><p>Regardless what the player knows, the player may need these checks to know if <em>their character</em> knows something. This isn't for the DM to control the character, it's for the DM to do their job of describing their environment correctly so the player can then decide what to do.</p><p></p><p>The idea you stated before for the lack of roll was:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We now have a case where the ability check is not to determine how the character thinks nor how the character acts, but rather to give the player the information their character would observe. So that the player can make an informed decision how to have their character respond.</p><p></p><p>It seems that means that it would be valid to make that ability check.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7534358, member: 20564"] Sorry about that. Without the information you couldn't make sense of it, when you didn't address it at all it felt like you had sidestepped the part of the post that showed a scenario outside what you were talking about. Here's where I think the big difference is. There are times that, as a DM, I see the need to adjudicate the results of a skill roll I have asked for in order for me to properly fulfill the duty of the DM to describe the environment. The environment includes information that can differ based on your character sheet, such as Darkvision, passive Perception and passive Insight. This is not to tell the player what the character things, but to give the player the information that the character should get. Sometimes, this information comes from other PCs. Including tasks they are doing that would generate a dex (stealth) or charisma (deception) if you were attempting against an NPC. (Or another PC at my table.) Regardless what the player knows, the player may need these checks to know if [I]their character[/I] knows something. This isn't for the DM to control the character, it's for the DM to do their job of describing their environment correctly so the player can then decide what to do. The idea you stated before for the lack of roll was: We now have a case where the ability check is not to determine how the character thinks nor how the character acts, but rather to give the player the information their character would observe. So that the player can make an informed decision how to have their character respond. It seems that means that it would be valid to make that ability check. [/QUOTE]
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