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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7534636" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>Side comment: </p><p></p><p>There seems to be an argument, directly or indirectly by multiple posters, that a player needs to "pay" in some way for having a character with a dump stat and part of paying for it is, for example, folding in an argument between characters, acting stupid or playing dumb, not sussing out a lie, etc. Or abiding by the result of an ability check by another player's character.</p><p></p><p>I would say that in a game which contains all three pillars of D&D, that player is going to pay when he or she has to make an ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves that ability score. The smart play is to avoid engaging in tasks that may call for such an ability check, and that's reasonable behavior from the player in my view. But you can't always avoid it, especially when it comes to saving throws. I know in my games all the characters engage in social interaction challenges and dread having to make that Charisma check when they dumped the stat. (Inspiration is their friend here.)</p><p></p><p>I therefore submit that the player is not really gaining any benefit from the DM having the players work out their PvP issues between them without reference to the mechanics. I'd even go so far to say that, if anything, doing so is a penalty of sorts, a tax on the player for their build choices which is unnecessary. There is, after all, a whole world of villains and monsters out there to lie to, steal from, and murder and all manner of social and exploration challenges in between. Why anyone would turn to the party for that conflict is a little baffling. But in any case those dump stats will come back to haunt that character without any additional burden of mechanics being used in PvP.</p><p></p><p>I hope that made sense. I'm still in the process of thinking it through.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7534636, member: 97077"] Side comment: There seems to be an argument, directly or indirectly by multiple posters, that a player needs to "pay" in some way for having a character with a dump stat and part of paying for it is, for example, folding in an argument between characters, acting stupid or playing dumb, not sussing out a lie, etc. Or abiding by the result of an ability check by another player's character. I would say that in a game which contains all three pillars of D&D, that player is going to pay when he or she has to make an ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves that ability score. The smart play is to avoid engaging in tasks that may call for such an ability check, and that's reasonable behavior from the player in my view. But you can't always avoid it, especially when it comes to saving throws. I know in my games all the characters engage in social interaction challenges and dread having to make that Charisma check when they dumped the stat. (Inspiration is their friend here.) I therefore submit that the player is not really gaining any benefit from the DM having the players work out their PvP issues between them without reference to the mechanics. I'd even go so far to say that, if anything, doing so is a penalty of sorts, a tax on the player for their build choices which is unnecessary. There is, after all, a whole world of villains and monsters out there to lie to, steal from, and murder and all manner of social and exploration challenges in between. Why anyone would turn to the party for that conflict is a little baffling. But in any case those dump stats will come back to haunt that character without any additional burden of mechanics being used in PvP. I hope that made sense. I'm still in the process of thinking it through. [/QUOTE]
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