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<blockquote data-quote="TaranTheWanderer" data-source="post: 7535225" data-attributes="member: 15882"><p>This thread has been filled with references to The Social Contract. When you make the stakes, you are making a social contract. The player playing the rogue says, I they don't want to do a test. They are going to kill the Villain regardless of the results. In this situation, the player has decided on the meta level, what their character will do. Then you don't have a test. The rogue kills the villain, the PCs never find out if they made the right decision(until maybe later when the true villain emerges) and the story continues. As several people pointed out, you can't force someone to do something they don't think their character would do.</p><p></p><p>But if the player of the rogue agrees, then they are bound by the contract. Just like you are bound to be unconscious when you reach 0hp. If you aren't going to abide by the rules of the game, then why play it. If the rogue turns around and kills the guy anyways, you'd probably not use this approach with this player anymore. The player has to be mature enough and honest enough to play by the rules set by the table.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You discuss motivations when you barter the stakes. "My character doesn't care if he's not the guy we're looking for, he's a necromancer and there's no way my character would let a necromancer live."</p><p></p><p>As a side note, I understand that this meta talk is not everyone's bag and it's hard to wrap one's head around. I suppose it sounds 'wonkey' if you've only ever played D&D. I find that when you start learning from other systems, you can find tools to add to your toolbox that work very well in D&D.</p><p></p><p>But it's probably worth trying. At worst you'll find out you are right and it doesn't work in your game. At best, it gives you another tool in your tool-belt. I think it's always better to say, "I've tried that but it didn't work because of XYZ." Instead of "I would never do that in my game, it would never work."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, you aren't requiring them to interpret it in a certain way. You are asking them how they'd like to interpret it.</p><p></p><p>I mean, you don't even have to roll the dice. You could say, "Hey, I have a cool idea about having this guy as a recurring villain with some neat plot hooks later on, would your characters let him go if he could persuade them? And the players could answer, "sure, yeah, that sounds fun." No roles needed, just narrate. I find Most players don't want to give things away for nothing, though. Or they might just say, "no, we've been hunting him forever. he's dead meat." But it may be worth asking. </p><p></p><p>In fact I've let NPCs go and told the DM, this "NPC is just too cool to kill, I think he'd make a great recurring villain."</p><p></p><p>This post feels philosophical, for some reason....</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TaranTheWanderer, post: 7535225, member: 15882"] This thread has been filled with references to The Social Contract. When you make the stakes, you are making a social contract. The player playing the rogue says, I they don't want to do a test. They are going to kill the Villain regardless of the results. In this situation, the player has decided on the meta level, what their character will do. Then you don't have a test. The rogue kills the villain, the PCs never find out if they made the right decision(until maybe later when the true villain emerges) and the story continues. As several people pointed out, you can't force someone to do something they don't think their character would do. But if the player of the rogue agrees, then they are bound by the contract. Just like you are bound to be unconscious when you reach 0hp. If you aren't going to abide by the rules of the game, then why play it. If the rogue turns around and kills the guy anyways, you'd probably not use this approach with this player anymore. The player has to be mature enough and honest enough to play by the rules set by the table. You discuss motivations when you barter the stakes. "My character doesn't care if he's not the guy we're looking for, he's a necromancer and there's no way my character would let a necromancer live." As a side note, I understand that this meta talk is not everyone's bag and it's hard to wrap one's head around. I suppose it sounds 'wonkey' if you've only ever played D&D. I find that when you start learning from other systems, you can find tools to add to your toolbox that work very well in D&D. But it's probably worth trying. At worst you'll find out you are right and it doesn't work in your game. At best, it gives you another tool in your tool-belt. I think it's always better to say, "I've tried that but it didn't work because of XYZ." Instead of "I would never do that in my game, it would never work." Well, you aren't requiring them to interpret it in a certain way. You are asking them how they'd like to interpret it. I mean, you don't even have to roll the dice. You could say, "Hey, I have a cool idea about having this guy as a recurring villain with some neat plot hooks later on, would your characters let him go if he could persuade them? And the players could answer, "sure, yeah, that sounds fun." No roles needed, just narrate. I find Most players don't want to give things away for nothing, though. Or they might just say, "no, we've been hunting him forever. he's dead meat." But it may be worth asking. In fact I've let NPCs go and told the DM, this "NPC is just too cool to kill, I think he'd make a great recurring villain." This post feels philosophical, for some reason.... [/QUOTE]
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