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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7540239" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>This is really something that is going to depend on the player and the group. I (and my group) would agree with you, although there would rarely be a roll, they’ll just go by their ability scores and role play it appropriately.</p><p></p><p>For too many players, though, they feel it goes against their precious “player agency” which I totally disagree with. It’s impacting their character agency, and as you point out, they are free to role play the scenario in any way they want, but appropriately. To put it a different way, telling a wizard with an 8 Strength that they cannot lift a portcullis isn’t impacting player agency.</p><p></p><p>It’s an interesting subject, because there are times (charm magic for one) where a character’s free will or good judgement is impaired, but player’s often take offense at this. There are lots of interesting stories where this might apply, but some players frequently resist. We have an Impaired condition (used when drunk, among other things) where a Wisdom saving throw may be required or you make a poor choice. </p><p></p><p>In circumstances like a lycanthrope, we leave it up to the player to decide if they wish to control the beast or have the DM do it. If there’s a question of what choice would be good, then we just make a Wisdom save.</p><p></p><p>Another thing I always see is questioning “player vs player” when this is “character vs character.” But some players have difficulty separating the two (the player agency vs character agency again).</p><p></p><p>However, the flip side is that this doesn’t work well when other players are not playing “in character.” It becomes an issue when it does become player vs player and folks take advantage of the in-game play to deal with out-of-game issues. It’s also potentially a problem with players who don’t understand role-playing well, and simply do what they want in the moment, causing intra-party strife where it doesn’t really belong. </p><p></p><p>We find that by using the rules/stats to inform our role-playing even in social situations between PCs that it increases immersion and the depth of the characters. But it does require the table to be in agreement with such an approach, including letting each player remain in charge of their reactions. The rolls just help them determine how to shape that reaction.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 7540239, member: 6778044"] This is really something that is going to depend on the player and the group. I (and my group) would agree with you, although there would rarely be a roll, they’ll just go by their ability scores and role play it appropriately. For too many players, though, they feel it goes against their precious “player agency” which I totally disagree with. It’s impacting their character agency, and as you point out, they are free to role play the scenario in any way they want, but appropriately. To put it a different way, telling a wizard with an 8 Strength that they cannot lift a portcullis isn’t impacting player agency. It’s an interesting subject, because there are times (charm magic for one) where a character’s free will or good judgement is impaired, but player’s often take offense at this. There are lots of interesting stories where this might apply, but some players frequently resist. We have an Impaired condition (used when drunk, among other things) where a Wisdom saving throw may be required or you make a poor choice. In circumstances like a lycanthrope, we leave it up to the player to decide if they wish to control the beast or have the DM do it. If there’s a question of what choice would be good, then we just make a Wisdom save. Another thing I always see is questioning “player vs player” when this is “character vs character.” But some players have difficulty separating the two (the player agency vs character agency again). However, the flip side is that this doesn’t work well when other players are not playing “in character.” It becomes an issue when it does become player vs player and folks take advantage of the in-game play to deal with out-of-game issues. It’s also potentially a problem with players who don’t understand role-playing well, and simply do what they want in the moment, causing intra-party strife where it doesn’t really belong. We find that by using the rules/stats to inform our role-playing even in social situations between PCs that it increases immersion and the depth of the characters. But it does require the table to be in agreement with such an approach, including letting each player remain in charge of their reactions. The rolls just help them determine how to shape that reaction. [/QUOTE]
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