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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8955189" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>It's not that "the ability was not designed to waste resources" as you put it. The ability was designed to <em>pretend</em> that was a real risk of doing so in order to leverage that illusion elsewhere.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No it goes more like this because we are humans playing this game while existing in linear time & a retcon made by us like that is very different from what you describe. It's not the <em>character</em> engaging in a retcon at the last second</p><p>[spoiler="It's the player"]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]277219[/ATTACH]</p><p style="text-align: right"></p><p>A successful attack turning out to be a smite at the last second isn't a product of random chance that could be attributed to the PC's choices. The player straight up decides after looking at the d20.</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p></p><p>[spoiler]Alice: "xxx, we know that hits & I'm going to make that a smite that's yyy radiant"</p><p>DM: "ok Alice you bring that [+N] sword down & at the last instant decide to channel power through the blade, the <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters?filter-search=&filter-type=3&sort=cr" target="_blank">feathered celestial snake</a> defending this tomb is looking really hurt"</p><p>Bob: "I'm going to swing my sword at the couatl... crap... I really need to find a +n sword like the one bob got for his smites, I think ### is going to miss?..."</p><p>DM: "Yea you were off by a bit. Bob you swing your sword but the serpent flaps it's wings & flails a bit unpredictably to just miss your blade"</p><p>DaveTheNewbie: "I'm going to cast a spell, does xxx hit?"</p><p>DM: "That depends what are you doing?"</p><p>DaveTheNewbie: "casting a spell, Siias d'cannith is a disciple of Aureun & a master of the arcane"</p><p>DM: "what spell? You gotta declare the spell then roll."</p><p>DaveTheNewbie: "ok fine I'm going to <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/chaos-bolt" target="_blank">cast chaos bolt </a>at [Dave's max slot level]?"</p><p>DM: "now you need to roll"</p><p>DaveTheNewbie: "oh... 1 plus.. hmm... can't I just use my old roll like Alice does all the time?"</p><p>DM: "no dave you can't ... what does [Dave's max slot level] chaos bolt do on a miss? Paladin's get to check if they hit before smiting in order to make up for the fact that it does nothing if they miss so they don't waste the charge or slot"</p><p>DaveTheNewbie: "um... <em>flip flip flip</em> I'm reading this & it looks like chaos bolt cast at [Dave's max slot level] does the same thing as when I miss with firebolt ray of frost or when Alice misses with her +N sword"</p><p>DM: "<em>thinks a second & sighs</em> ok Silias channels arcane forces to bring down chaos upon the guardian snake but just misses & the bolt of chaos crashes into a wall... Alice you're up"</p><p>Alice: "" I'm going to swing my sword and... xxx looks like I hit, I'm going to make that a smite"</p><p>DM: "Ok you bring that charge of divne energy through your blade but at the last instant the couatl casts shield causing the charge to be redirected into the floor"</p><p>Alice: "WTF?!... I wouldn't have used my smite if I knew <em>you</em> were going to retcon a shield spell in after I already hit. Smite is a reaction to getting hit so he would have needed to shield before I reacted to hitting."</p><p>DaveTheNewbie: "is paladin of xxx like a homebrew subclass? it seems a bit over the top, do I get my spell slot back too? What about when I cast web earlier & everything saved, do I get that back at least?"</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>Yes there are spells that save for half & spells that just work like simple weapons martial weapons, light armor medium armor heavy armor & shields "just work" but my sheer coincidence the first spell attack spell I clicked was one of the many that do nothing on a miss or failed save. Out of the spells with a <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=&filter-attack-type=2&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=" target="_blank">ranged spell attack</a> or a<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=&filter-attack-type=1&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=" target="_blank"> melee spell attack</a> the vast majority do nothing mechanically other than consume a spell slot on a failed attack roll. Even with save spells there are quite a number like slow blindness/deafness bane & so on that do nothing to the target on a successful save</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8955189, member: 93670"] It's not that "the ability was not designed to waste resources" as you put it. The ability was designed to [I]pretend[/I] that was a real risk of doing so in order to leverage that illusion elsewhere. No it goes more like this because we are humans playing this game while existing in linear time & a retcon made by us like that is very different from what you describe. It's not the [I]character[/I] engaging in a retcon at the last second [spoiler="It's the player"] [ATTACH type="full" alt="1677863841906.png"]277219[/ATTACH] [RIGHT][/RIGHT] A successful attack turning out to be a smite at the last second isn't a product of random chance that could be attributed to the PC's choices. The player straight up decides after looking at the d20. [/spoiler] [spoiler]Alice: "xxx, we know that hits & I'm going to make that a smite that's yyy radiant" DM: "ok Alice you bring that [+N] sword down & at the last instant decide to channel power through the blade, the [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters?filter-search=&filter-type=3&sort=cr']feathered celestial snake[/URL] defending this tomb is looking really hurt" Bob: "I'm going to swing my sword at the couatl... crap... I really need to find a +n sword like the one bob got for his smites, I think ### is going to miss?..." DM: "Yea you were off by a bit. Bob you swing your sword but the serpent flaps it's wings & flails a bit unpredictably to just miss your blade" DaveTheNewbie: "I'm going to cast a spell, does xxx hit?" DM: "That depends what are you doing?" DaveTheNewbie: "casting a spell, Siias d'cannith is a disciple of Aureun & a master of the arcane" DM: "what spell? You gotta declare the spell then roll." DaveTheNewbie: "ok fine I'm going to [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/chaos-bolt']cast chaos bolt [/URL]at [Dave's max slot level]?" DM: "now you need to roll" DaveTheNewbie: "oh... 1 plus.. hmm... can't I just use my old roll like Alice does all the time?" DM: "no dave you can't ... what does [Dave's max slot level] chaos bolt do on a miss? Paladin's get to check if they hit before smiting in order to make up for the fact that it does nothing if they miss so they don't waste the charge or slot" DaveTheNewbie: "um... [I]flip flip flip[/I] I'm reading this & it looks like chaos bolt cast at [Dave's max slot level] does the same thing as when I miss with firebolt ray of frost or when Alice misses with her +N sword" DM: "[I]thinks a second & sighs[/I] ok Silias channels arcane forces to bring down chaos upon the guardian snake but just misses & the bolt of chaos crashes into a wall... Alice you're up" Alice: "" I'm going to swing my sword and... xxx looks like I hit, I'm going to make that a smite" DM: "Ok you bring that charge of divne energy through your blade but at the last instant the couatl casts shield causing the charge to be redirected into the floor" Alice: "WTF?!... I wouldn't have used my smite if I knew [I]you[/I] were going to retcon a shield spell in after I already hit. Smite is a reaction to getting hit so he would have needed to shield before I reacted to hitting." DaveTheNewbie: "is paladin of xxx like a homebrew subclass? it seems a bit over the top, do I get my spell slot back too? What about when I cast web earlier & everything saved, do I get that back at least?" [/spoiler] Yes there are spells that save for half & spells that just work like simple weapons martial weapons, light armor medium armor heavy armor & shields "just work" but my sheer coincidence the first spell attack spell I clicked was one of the many that do nothing on a miss or failed save. Out of the spells with a [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=&filter-attack-type=2&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=']ranged spell attack[/URL] or a[URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=&filter-attack-type=1&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class='] melee spell attack[/URL] the vast majority do nothing mechanically other than consume a spell slot on a failed attack roll. Even with save spells there are quite a number like slow blindness/deafness bane & so on that do nothing to the target on a successful save [/QUOTE]
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