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Sneak Attack + Touch Spells... Sneak Harm ?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ywain" data-source="post: 7233" data-attributes="member: 1420"><p>I think that there are three related questions at play here:</p><p></p><p>1) Can you deal sneak attack damage with a touch attack? The answer is "yes", but only if the corresponding spell deals damage, and you meet the conditions for sneak attack. As a rule of thumb, if you can score a critical hit with the spell then you can do sneak attack damage. Note that spells such as harm simply reduce hit points to a set amount and cannot score critical hits.</p><p></p><p>2) Can you deal sneak attack damage with an unarmed strike at the same time that you deliver a touch attack. Yes, see DCollins' quotation.</p><p></p><p>3) What is the order of operations for dealing unarmed strike damage and touch spell effects? If the unarmed strike damage is counted first, then Harm would render the damage redundant (in most circumstances) as the opponent would still only be reduced to 1d4 HP. If the spell takes effect first, then the opponent would be reduced to 1d4 HP then the unarmed attack damage would be subtracted. The sage seems to impy that they happen at the same time, but this is impossible in the case of Harm.</p><p></p><p>Discuss.</p><p></p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>BTW the circumstance where the unarmed strike damage wouldn't be redundant, even if it is delivered before the Harm effect, is if you are doing subdual damage. 10 points of subdual damage then the opponent is reduced to 4 HP = unconscious opponent. Not as good as dead, but pretty close.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ywain, post: 7233, member: 1420"] I think that there are three related questions at play here: 1) Can you deal sneak attack damage with a touch attack? The answer is "yes", but only if the corresponding spell deals damage, and you meet the conditions for sneak attack. As a rule of thumb, if you can score a critical hit with the spell then you can do sneak attack damage. Note that spells such as harm simply reduce hit points to a set amount and cannot score critical hits. 2) Can you deal sneak attack damage with an unarmed strike at the same time that you deliver a touch attack. Yes, see DCollins' quotation. 3) What is the order of operations for dealing unarmed strike damage and touch spell effects? If the unarmed strike damage is counted first, then Harm would render the damage redundant (in most circumstances) as the opponent would still only be reduced to 1d4 HP. If the spell takes effect first, then the opponent would be reduced to 1d4 HP then the unarmed attack damage would be subtracted. The sage seems to impy that they happen at the same time, but this is impossible in the case of Harm. Discuss. :D BTW the circumstance where the unarmed strike damage wouldn't be redundant, even if it is delivered before the Harm effect, is if you are doing subdual damage. 10 points of subdual damage then the opponent is reduced to 4 HP = unconscious opponent. Not as good as dead, but pretty close. [/QUOTE]
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