Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
So, about defenses aka. PHB2 defenses feats
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Bayuer" data-source="post: 4741608" data-attributes="member: 61817"><p>@AbdulAlhazred</p><p>Skill feat is just only pseudo-roleplay feat option in game. Linguist may be better and that's it. We don't talk about skill use couse it will need another thread when we can discuss about it's broken ST ie. Skill Challange. Stop making an examples of roleplaying combat consequences, couse it's not the fact, and almost none use such a fights in they games, couse 4E is mostly about attack rolls and damage rolls.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's true. But... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> If DMG don't have enough experience and don't know the game math etc he will make some mistakes when he design the eno<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />ers. He will put to weak monster and thus the challange will be trival (and most of the DMs do such). Guidlines from DMG are to weak, but they are for non-optimized roleplaying parties I think. In other hand when a such DMG want to make a threat to party he will make deadly encounter mixing monsters thats combat effects work very nice.</p><p></p><p>The both can be true and in both cases having better defenses is needed. In first example it will not change anything. In second it will give players just fair chances to survive.</p><p></p><p>One more thing. Don't use n=0 or n+1 encounters as guidlines for challenging fights. Don't do so with solos and too many elities, couse they fail to make they designed role. The true is the more monsters in fight, the more challenging it is. One example here:</p><p>- Throw on 20 level party this encounter (we will be using easy Wolf Pack (7 skirmishers of level n-4:</p><p>- We got 7 Kuo-Toa Monitors (lvl 16 Skirmisher)</p><p>They attack is +19 vs. REF and make you stunned (encounter power) (save ends)</p><p>Now let's look at playres DEF:</p><p>Highest - 32 (13 on dice to hit), Middle - 29 (10 on dice to hit, Lowest - 25 (6 on dice to hit).</p><p>Anyone can easly say. They DEF are quite fine, thus this are monsters 4lvl behind the PCs! But there are 7 of them, and this fight is EASY! Make Let's make them the same lvl +23 vs. REF.</p><p>Highest -32 (9 on dice to hit), Middle - 29 (6 on dice to hit), Lowest - 25 (2 on dice to hit). Guidlines tells us that there 5 monsters of level n (the same as team level) is standard fight. You can see that someone with realy weak REF (one example: barbarian) will have a though time in this fight. Other will be hurt too. Only to ones with high REF will have some fun from game!</p><p></p><p>Well I did an easy/standard fight above. Imagine what will be if this will be a hard fight on n+4 level with controller or artillery as buckup. TPK.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And that's the point! The feats are too good to just pretend they are not exist, and I will take Linguist on 25 level couse I'm roleplayer.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You think we are some idiots here, gathering to just make some teory fiction posts? Man... This problem wasn't on topic until them from two reasons:</p><p>- Not many people are playing high paragon/epic tier games and even if, not everybody pay attention to game math etc. The most players just take what a DM gives to them and they are happy, thus is very good! Couse the game is good to them.</p><p>- We didn't have PHB2 feats until now, thus not many people did math crunch and state the math is broken. Now we have evidences about this!</p><p></p><p>And I must dissapoint you. I was playing almost all levels till then (just not late epic games) and I can tell you my feelings that if my DM will not take my advices seriously he will slain our party many times. I just pointed him that this isn't tactic game DM vs. players, but the cinematic game when we fight and monster are to make the game fun. He stopped using encounters as I gave as an example above and make the fights still challenging but not devastating. Good DMG can always make TPK easily if he knows rules, but this aren't n, or n+1 fights (but this can still happen, go above my encounter example).</p><p></p><p>Standard fight may look fine. Players will surive them withou any problems, but monster hitting on 2 on dice isn't "well he need that, couse the fights are to easy". It's just a terrible design step and math bug.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bayuer, post: 4741608, member: 61817"] @AbdulAlhazred Skill feat is just only pseudo-roleplay feat option in game. Linguist may be better and that's it. We don't talk about skill use couse it will need another thread when we can discuss about it's broken ST ie. Skill Challange. Stop making an examples of roleplaying combat consequences, couse it's not the fact, and almost none use such a fights in they games, couse 4E is mostly about attack rolls and damage rolls. That's true. But... :) If DMG don't have enough experience and don't know the game math etc he will make some mistakes when he design the eno:):):):)ers. He will put to weak monster and thus the challange will be trival (and most of the DMs do such). Guidlines from DMG are to weak, but they are for non-optimized roleplaying parties I think. In other hand when a such DMG want to make a threat to party he will make deadly encounter mixing monsters thats combat effects work very nice. The both can be true and in both cases having better defenses is needed. In first example it will not change anything. In second it will give players just fair chances to survive. One more thing. Don't use n=0 or n+1 encounters as guidlines for challenging fights. Don't do so with solos and too many elities, couse they fail to make they designed role. The true is the more monsters in fight, the more challenging it is. One example here: - Throw on 20 level party this encounter (we will be using easy Wolf Pack (7 skirmishers of level n-4: - We got 7 Kuo-Toa Monitors (lvl 16 Skirmisher) They attack is +19 vs. REF and make you stunned (encounter power) (save ends) Now let's look at playres DEF: Highest - 32 (13 on dice to hit), Middle - 29 (10 on dice to hit, Lowest - 25 (6 on dice to hit). Anyone can easly say. They DEF are quite fine, thus this are monsters 4lvl behind the PCs! But there are 7 of them, and this fight is EASY! Make Let's make them the same lvl +23 vs. REF. Highest -32 (9 on dice to hit), Middle - 29 (6 on dice to hit), Lowest - 25 (2 on dice to hit). Guidlines tells us that there 5 monsters of level n (the same as team level) is standard fight. You can see that someone with realy weak REF (one example: barbarian) will have a though time in this fight. Other will be hurt too. Only to ones with high REF will have some fun from game! Well I did an easy/standard fight above. Imagine what will be if this will be a hard fight on n+4 level with controller or artillery as buckup. TPK. And that's the point! The feats are too good to just pretend they are not exist, and I will take Linguist on 25 level couse I'm roleplayer. You think we are some idiots here, gathering to just make some teory fiction posts? Man... This problem wasn't on topic until them from two reasons: - Not many people are playing high paragon/epic tier games and even if, not everybody pay attention to game math etc. The most players just take what a DM gives to them and they are happy, thus is very good! Couse the game is good to them. - We didn't have PHB2 feats until now, thus not many people did math crunch and state the math is broken. Now we have evidences about this! And I must dissapoint you. I was playing almost all levels till then (just not late epic games) and I can tell you my feelings that if my DM will not take my advices seriously he will slain our party many times. I just pointed him that this isn't tactic game DM vs. players, but the cinematic game when we fight and monster are to make the game fun. He stopped using encounters as I gave as an example above and make the fights still challenging but not devastating. Good DMG can always make TPK easily if he knows rules, but this aren't n, or n+1 fights (but this can still happen, go above my encounter example). Standard fight may look fine. Players will surive them withou any problems, but monster hitting on 2 on dice isn't "well he need that, couse the fights are to easy". It's just a terrible design step and math bug. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
So, about defenses aka. PHB2 defenses feats
Top