D&D 5E So what is the state of gishes after Xanathar's?

[ppaladin123]

It seems like College of Swords is a viable edition to the "gish in a box" options for d&d 5e.
Hexblade looks like its going to be a very common dip for bards, sorcerers and paladins.
Divine soul mixed very well with paladin/sorcerer.

For Int-based, EK and AT might want to take a couple of levels oif wizard for war-wizard.

What else?

 

[gyor]

At high enough level any wizard can cast tensers transformation to become an instant gish.

Sorceror's get Shadow Blade and Absorb Elements now, so even a clever start up Sorceror can do at least some Gish stuff. (Summon Shadow Blade, take fire/cold/acid/thunder/lightening damage, cast absorb elements as a reaction, gaining resistance to that damage type, then unleash it in you mext melee attack).

Divine Souls also get access to Holy Weapon, although unlike other Sorceror's Divine Soul's are divine spell casters, so I don't really count them as gishes. Still a EK fighter 5, Divine Soul 15 makes an interesting alternative to a Paladin.

 

[Blue]

I'm interested in this topic, but won't be able to add to it until XGtE hits general distribution.

 

[ppaladin123]

Yes, I expect conversation will pick up next week.

 

[Istbor]

I should have my book tonight. I can have a look and contribute some of my thoughts.

 

[mellored]

It seems like College of Swords is a viable edition to the "gish in a box" options for d&d 5e.

Collage of swords is a slightly more offensive than valor. But blade flourishes don't work with booming blade and eat up your inspiration dice, which still requires Cha.
So not great.

Oddly it works with bows. Might be an oversight.

Hexblade looks like its going to be a very common dip for bards, sorcerers and paladins.

Armor, shield, Cha to hit, and booming blade for a 1 level dip really opens up some doors, including making collage of swords or valor a lot less MAD.
You can also get Cha to attack with bows via blade pact + improved pact weapon. And get your smite without going paladin.

But yea, hexblades have armour, can blast at range, hit in melee, and have a bunch of spells. Probably the top gish without multi-classing.

At high enough level any wizard can cast tensers transformation to become an instant gish.

It's concentration, and while it does give you proficiency in Con, advantage, and good damage (2 attacks with +2d12), it doesn't give you any Dex/Str and can give you exhaustion.
So I don't think it's something you want to depend on.

Sorceror's get Shadow Blade and Absorb Elements now, so even a clever start up Sorceror can do at least some Gish stuff. (Summon Shadow Blade, take fire/cold/acid/thunder/lightening damage, cast absorb elements as a reaction, gaining resistance to that damage type, then unleash it in you mext melee attack).

That and darkness+devils sight for 2 SP, giving advantage on all attacks.

Though it still seems better for multi-classing then a straight gish.

Divine Souls also get access to Holy Weapon, although unlike other Sorceror's Divine Soul's are divine spell casters, so I don't really count them as gishes. Still a EK fighter 5, Divine Soul 15 makes an interesting alternative to a Paladin.

Divine soul doesn't get any martial abilities. It just adds heal spells (and wings at 14).

War wizards seem much better for dipping, and can share EK's Int.



There might also be some fun with storm sorcerer/paladin flying around with booming blade + thunderous smite.

 

[ppaladin123]

Collage of swords is a slightly more offensive than valor. But blade flourishes don't work with booming blade and eat up your inspiration dice, which still requires Cha.
So not great.

Oddly it works with bows. Might be an oversight.

Armor, shield, Cha to hit, and booming blade for a 1 level dip really opens up some doors, including making collage of swords or valor a lot less MAD.
You can also get Cha to attack with bows via blade pact + improved pact weapon. And get your smite without going paladin.

But yea, hexblades have armour, can blast at range, hit in melee, and have a bunch of spells. Probably the top gish without multi-classing.

At 14, they can flourish without spending inspiration but yeah. In the same way that lore bards tend to go knowledge cleric for 1 level, I'd think valor/swords would want to start hexblade for the better save/eldritch blast/cha-attacks.

 

[mellored]

At 14, they can flourish without spending inspiration but yeah. In the same way that lore bards tend to go knowledge cleric for 1 level, I'd think valor/swords would want to start hexblade for the better save/eldritch blast/cha-attacks.

I'm not excited about 14 levels for 2 attacks + 1d6 damage and +1d6 AC.

Even if you dip hexblade, you also get a 3d10 ranged attack (eldrich blast), and a weapon+3d8 melee attack (booming blade).