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Soldiers of the Blood War
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<blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6052183" data-attributes="member: 95493"><p>Let me just say that I completely get where you are coming from. I do. Planescape stuff is so pervasive in the WotC material that I think it should be optional and give very detailed guidelines on its use so as not to overpower a setting.</p><p></p><p>With that said I think that there is going to be a default for everything but that when you do have a default it should remain consistent and faithful to itself.</p><p></p><p>Also, if dragonborn and warforged were in every setting then no one would think twice. In fact I can see very few people who would have a problem if one or both of these races existed in the MM, but many who would take issue with them being in PHB. Similarly I think the planescape stuff should be primarily in a planescape book, a rich and fully detailed one so people who want to run that setting, or a part of it, can. However, I think we'll still see some influences or references for planescape-y stuff in the monster manual. Ie. Blood War is okay to talk about but don't focus on it too much. Drow are evil elves but don't focus on it too much.</p><p></p><p>But because I want to play devils advocate and I'm a little bit of a jerk I'm going to do this..</p><p>[sblock]Oh barf. Back to Earth 616. Yuck.</p><p></p><p>Look, I know that Earth 616 has it fans. Obviously. But, I'm sorry, the whole Spiderman thing and the bogus distinction between Peter Parker and <strong><a href="http://marvel.wikia.com/Peter_Parker_%28Ben_Reilly%29_%28Earth-616%29" target="_blank">Ben Reilly</a></strong>, and the clone saga just annoys the crap out of me. Ben Reilly is the clone just because a test says so? Really? So, basically, there is absolutely no difference between Ben Reilly or Peter Parker, both can use identical tactics, for identical reasons. Marvel has said as much in various articles.</p><p></p><p>If they're the same, then why bother having two? Call them both spiderman and be done with it. I do not want any Spiderman in my Marvel Universe. It was a needless intrusion in the clone saga and continued all the way through to present day (more or less). Hey, if you like Ben Reilly, great, but, don't cram it down my throat.</p><p></p><p>I mean, anyone who favours this should never, ever complain about the inclusion of any random event material in core. I better not hear a single complaint about Mephisto or one more day ever again. After all, if it's fine to add in something so pervasive as the clone saga into core Marvel Universe, it better be fine to have wolverine with bone claws in universe as well.</p><p></p><p>I think this, more than anything else, is what bugs me about the whole debates that went on during Ultimate Universe. It was perfectly fine for Universe 616 fans to ram their preferences down everyone's throats, but, we certainly can't touch anything else.</p><p></p><p>Ah well, just means I cannot use any planar based modules from Marvel.[/sblock]</p><p>From my example alone it seems like you might be conflating different aspects of planescape, yugoloths, blood-war, succubi as devil and devils = demons ALL with the same article which barely touched on any of those.</p><p></p><p>Also, to draw from my example, it seems like it may be okay for them to have a core/default/original universe but no one is saying you can't also have the ultimate universe or PoL or any other setting you want. Default =/= Forced.</p><p></p><p>If you don't like the material then don't use it. You said as much yourself.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tovec, post: 6052183, member: 95493"] Let me just say that I completely get where you are coming from. I do. Planescape stuff is so pervasive in the WotC material that I think it should be optional and give very detailed guidelines on its use so as not to overpower a setting. With that said I think that there is going to be a default for everything but that when you do have a default it should remain consistent and faithful to itself. Also, if dragonborn and warforged were in every setting then no one would think twice. In fact I can see very few people who would have a problem if one or both of these races existed in the MM, but many who would take issue with them being in PHB. Similarly I think the planescape stuff should be primarily in a planescape book, a rich and fully detailed one so people who want to run that setting, or a part of it, can. However, I think we'll still see some influences or references for planescape-y stuff in the monster manual. Ie. Blood War is okay to talk about but don't focus on it too much. Drow are evil elves but don't focus on it too much. But because I want to play devils advocate and I'm a little bit of a jerk I'm going to do this.. [sblock]Oh barf. Back to Earth 616. Yuck. Look, I know that Earth 616 has it fans. Obviously. But, I'm sorry, the whole Spiderman thing and the bogus distinction between Peter Parker and [B][URL="http://marvel.wikia.com/Peter_Parker_%28Ben_Reilly%29_%28Earth-616%29"]Ben Reilly[/URL][/B], and the clone saga just annoys the crap out of me. Ben Reilly is the clone just because a test says so? Really? So, basically, there is absolutely no difference between Ben Reilly or Peter Parker, both can use identical tactics, for identical reasons. Marvel has said as much in various articles. If they're the same, then why bother having two? Call them both spiderman and be done with it. I do not want any Spiderman in my Marvel Universe. It was a needless intrusion in the clone saga and continued all the way through to present day (more or less). Hey, if you like Ben Reilly, great, but, don't cram it down my throat. I mean, anyone who favours this should never, ever complain about the inclusion of any random event material in core. I better not hear a single complaint about Mephisto or one more day ever again. After all, if it's fine to add in something so pervasive as the clone saga into core Marvel Universe, it better be fine to have wolverine with bone claws in universe as well. I think this, more than anything else, is what bugs me about the whole debates that went on during Ultimate Universe. It was perfectly fine for Universe 616 fans to ram their preferences down everyone's throats, but, we certainly can't touch anything else. Ah well, just means I cannot use any planar based modules from Marvel.[/sblock] From my example alone it seems like you might be conflating different aspects of planescape, yugoloths, blood-war, succubi as devil and devils = demons ALL with the same article which barely touched on any of those. Also, to draw from my example, it seems like it may be okay for them to have a core/default/original universe but no one is saying you can't also have the ultimate universe or PoL or any other setting you want. Default =/= Forced. If you don't like the material then don't use it. You said as much yourself. [/QUOTE]
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