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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6300768" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>1) Shouldn't this be in house rules? </p><p></p><p>2) I'm not opposed to the general concept of adding variety to the rogue.</p><p></p><p>3) I don't strongly agree with your thesis, in that I don't feel the existing rogue is very focused on traps. For all of 3.X, the rogue has been a true generalist IMO and very different from the 2e rogue (which was tier 5) in that you are a skill monkey with varied skills, a trap finder, and a damage dealer. Nothing really prevents a 3.X era rogue from being the face, backstabber, fence, pick pocket, and ninja all rolled into one. </p><p></p><p>4) To the extent that I agree with your argument, I would argue that the very narrowness of trap related abilities means that they can only be traded for abilities of equally circumstantial and marginal utility. </p><p></p><p>5) I don't necessarily find your specific implementations to be balanced, particularly in the light of #4. This problem runs at both the level of the logic of individual rules - the backstabber has a higher AC when surrounded than they do dodging a single foe - to the general level of trading something of situational utility for abilities you'll pretty much use all the time. The Face will quickly obtain Diplomancer status, something already all too easy to do if you try. In general, all of your abilities seem rather more useful than the thing they replace (Pickpocket seems to be an exception, as it is more situational than trap finding).</p><p></p><p>6) To a certain extent, I think that many of your concepts could be rewritten or rolled into a single feat, albeit one a bit weaker than your suggested class abilities. Then at first level the rogue could take a single bonus rogue feat, one of which could be Trap Finding. If the rogue wanted to diversify, they could then spend their precious few feats to take other feats later on - including Trap Finding. I'm sure you could find a feat that conveyed 'Scoundrel' if you tried.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6300768, member: 4937"] 1) Shouldn't this be in house rules? 2) I'm not opposed to the general concept of adding variety to the rogue. 3) I don't strongly agree with your thesis, in that I don't feel the existing rogue is very focused on traps. For all of 3.X, the rogue has been a true generalist IMO and very different from the 2e rogue (which was tier 5) in that you are a skill monkey with varied skills, a trap finder, and a damage dealer. Nothing really prevents a 3.X era rogue from being the face, backstabber, fence, pick pocket, and ninja all rolled into one. 4) To the extent that I agree with your argument, I would argue that the very narrowness of trap related abilities means that they can only be traded for abilities of equally circumstantial and marginal utility. 5) I don't necessarily find your specific implementations to be balanced, particularly in the light of #4. This problem runs at both the level of the logic of individual rules - the backstabber has a higher AC when surrounded than they do dodging a single foe - to the general level of trading something of situational utility for abilities you'll pretty much use all the time. The Face will quickly obtain Diplomancer status, something already all too easy to do if you try. In general, all of your abilities seem rather more useful than the thing they replace (Pickpocket seems to be an exception, as it is more situational than trap finding). 6) To a certain extent, I think that many of your concepts could be rewritten or rolled into a single feat, albeit one a bit weaker than your suggested class abilities. Then at first level the rogue could take a single bonus rogue feat, one of which could be Trap Finding. If the rogue wanted to diversify, they could then spend their precious few feats to take other feats later on - including Trap Finding. I'm sure you could find a feat that conveyed 'Scoundrel' if you tried. [/QUOTE]
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