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Speculation about "the feelz" of D&D 4th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Scrivener of Doom" data-source="post: 7024021" data-attributes="member: 87576"><p>And as I pointed out in another thread, that's patently false. </p><p></p><p>I can make an interesting, tactically-rich short encounter using only minions. If I want to make it difficult, I use minion artillery. If I want to make it last a bit longer, I use over-level minion soldiers. But, basically, I can mix and match the level and role of minions to create short 4E encounters that run as quickly as any encounter in a Four Yorkshiremen edition but are still interesting.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It wasn't.</p><p></p><p>It was a natural development of some of the earlier key conceits of D&D's design. But, yes, 5E is a throwback.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I imagine if you had played in the Four Yorkshiremen days you would have also seen a lot of minis and maps. D&D started with wargamers. And while ToTM was common in the 80s, a lot of that had to do with the lack of relatively cheap resources to run a game: Running with a lot of minis involved a lot of costs in both money and time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Similarly, if you had played AD&D, you would have seen the difficulty involved in running ToTM with lots of players - <em>de rigeur</em> in those days - and then having to adjudicate very specific measurements with respect to spell effects. Remember the blowback from a <em>fireball</em> or the ricochet of a <em>lightning bolt</em>? ToTM was driven more by the cost of resources than by the edition itself making ToTM a workable option.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Patently false.</p><p></p><p>What damage did a longsword do in Holmes? d8.</p><p>What damage did a longsword do in B/X? d8.</p><p>What damage did a longsword do in 1E? d8.</p><p>What damage did a longsword do in 2E? d8.</p><p>What damage did a longsword do in 3.xE? d8.</p><p>What damage did a longsword do in 4E? d8.</p><p></p><p>4E has plenty of things in common with earlier editions of D&D even where crunch is concerned. Again, it's a logical development that built on directions that 3.5E took just at 3.xE built on 2E and 2E built on 1E etc.... </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is the nub of the issue.</p><p></p><p>4E does not <em>feel</em> like D&D to some people. That makes sense. It's an emotional, gut-level response and it's personal. I can accept that. And it certainly makes more sense than any of those vain attempts to try and frame a dislike of 4E for being a PnP MMO (which it isn't) or boardgame (which it isn't) or being devoid of roleplaying (which it isn't).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scrivener of Doom, post: 7024021, member: 87576"] And as I pointed out in another thread, that's patently false. I can make an interesting, tactically-rich short encounter using only minions. If I want to make it difficult, I use minion artillery. If I want to make it last a bit longer, I use over-level minion soldiers. But, basically, I can mix and match the level and role of minions to create short 4E encounters that run as quickly as any encounter in a Four Yorkshiremen edition but are still interesting. It wasn't. It was a natural development of some of the earlier key conceits of D&D's design. But, yes, 5E is a throwback. I imagine if you had played in the Four Yorkshiremen days you would have also seen a lot of minis and maps. D&D started with wargamers. And while ToTM was common in the 80s, a lot of that had to do with the lack of relatively cheap resources to run a game: Running with a lot of minis involved a lot of costs in both money and time. Similarly, if you had played AD&D, you would have seen the difficulty involved in running ToTM with lots of players - [I]de rigeur[/I] in those days - and then having to adjudicate very specific measurements with respect to spell effects. Remember the blowback from a [I]fireball[/I] or the ricochet of a [I]lightning bolt[/I]? ToTM was driven more by the cost of resources than by the edition itself making ToTM a workable option. Patently false. What damage did a longsword do in Holmes? d8. What damage did a longsword do in B/X? d8. What damage did a longsword do in 1E? d8. What damage did a longsword do in 2E? d8. What damage did a longsword do in 3.xE? d8. What damage did a longsword do in 4E? d8. 4E has plenty of things in common with earlier editions of D&D even where crunch is concerned. Again, it's a logical development that built on directions that 3.5E took just at 3.xE built on 2E and 2E built on 1E etc.... This is the nub of the issue. 4E does not [I]feel[/I] like D&D to some people. That makes sense. It's an emotional, gut-level response and it's personal. I can accept that. And it certainly makes more sense than any of those vain attempts to try and frame a dislike of 4E for being a PnP MMO (which it isn't) or boardgame (which it isn't) or being devoid of roleplaying (which it isn't). [/QUOTE]
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