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Spell conversion: Mordenkainen's force missiles?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9011727" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Loath as I am to give excessive power to Wizards...I'm afraid I have to agree with Ancalagon. 2d4+2 damage is weak. Per the DMG, a typical spell of level 4 should do 6d10 damage if it targets a single creature, or 7d6 if it targets multiple creatures. A first-level spell should do 2d10 single-target (save for half) or 2d6 multi-target (save for half.) If the spell deals no damage on a save, you can increase that damage by 25%. Presumably, then, if the spell <em>always</em> does damage, reducing it by some percentage is appropriate. E.g., compare <em>magic missile</em> to a spell of equal level:</p><p></p><p><em>Magic missile</em>: 1d4+1 per spell level, nice damage type. 3.5 average damage per missile.</p><p><em>Chromatic orb</em>: 3d8 (+1d8 per spell level upcast), ranged spell attack (no miss damage, can crit), flexible type. 13.5 average (+4.5/level upcast)</p><p><em>Thunderwave</em>: 2d8 (+1d8 per spell level upcast), AoE save for half, push effect on fail. 9 damage average (+4.5/level upcast)</p><p>Hypothetical standard spell: 2d10 (+1d10 upcast), save for half. 11 average damage (+5.5/level upcast.)</p><p></p><p>So <em>magic missile</em> is 3.5/11 = 0.31818... or about a third of the hypothetical standard spell. <em>Chromatic orb</em> is 13.5/11 = 1.22727..., which is reasonably close to being 25% more damage, especially if you factor in crits. So we can say, with reasonable certainty, that the damage penalty is <em>around</em> "reduce to 1/3."</p><p></p><p>So, a hypothetical standard 4th level spell does 6d10 = 33 average damage. Reduce this by 1/3 to get approximately 11 average damage. 2d4+2 is only 7. You would need no less than <em>four</em> targets within 5 feet to compensate for the loss, which is unrealistic in the vast majority of situations.</p><p></p><p>My recommendation, then, is to have the missile "ricochet" to a nearby target. First hit does 2d4+2, second 1d4+2. Any ricochet must hit a target other than the original target, but if cast at levels above 4th, all ricochet missiles can hit the same target. IMO, the powerful scaling is sort of the point of these spells; they are weak but reliable at low spell levels and surprisingly potent at high levels. You can't fire more than 6 missiles with this spell, which would deal 69 (nice!) average damage, split between two targets. This is noticeably less than the average 49 (save for 24) damage <em>per</em> target of the 9th level AoE spell <em>weird</em>, which can target more than two targets--expect typically ~74 damage for two targets (one saves, one fails.) To say nothing of more powerful ones like <em>meteor swarm</em> (which does a whopping 20d6 damage <em>even on a failed save</em>.)</p><p></p><p>This produces a total damage of 3d4+4 = 7.5+4 = 11.5, very slightly above average for an "auto-hit" spell but spread out between two targets so it isn't that powerful (it's always better to concentrate fire.) When coupled with the "<em>shield</em> or shielding brooch" limitation, I think that's enough to justify being slightly better damage than <em>magic missile</em> on top of having the barrier-cracking utility.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9011727, member: 6790260"] Loath as I am to give excessive power to Wizards...I'm afraid I have to agree with Ancalagon. 2d4+2 damage is weak. Per the DMG, a typical spell of level 4 should do 6d10 damage if it targets a single creature, or 7d6 if it targets multiple creatures. A first-level spell should do 2d10 single-target (save for half) or 2d6 multi-target (save for half.) If the spell deals no damage on a save, you can increase that damage by 25%. Presumably, then, if the spell [I]always[/I] does damage, reducing it by some percentage is appropriate. E.g., compare [I]magic missile[/I] to a spell of equal level: [I]Magic missile[/I]: 1d4+1 per spell level, nice damage type. 3.5 average damage per missile. [I]Chromatic orb[/I]: 3d8 (+1d8 per spell level upcast), ranged spell attack (no miss damage, can crit), flexible type. 13.5 average (+4.5/level upcast) [I]Thunderwave[/I]: 2d8 (+1d8 per spell level upcast), AoE save for half, push effect on fail. 9 damage average (+4.5/level upcast) Hypothetical standard spell: 2d10 (+1d10 upcast), save for half. 11 average damage (+5.5/level upcast.) So [I]magic missile[/I] is 3.5/11 = 0.31818... or about a third of the hypothetical standard spell. [I]Chromatic orb[/I] is 13.5/11 = 1.22727..., which is reasonably close to being 25% more damage, especially if you factor in crits. So we can say, with reasonable certainty, that the damage penalty is [I]around[/I] "reduce to 1/3." So, a hypothetical standard 4th level spell does 6d10 = 33 average damage. Reduce this by 1/3 to get approximately 11 average damage. 2d4+2 is only 7. You would need no less than [I]four[/I] targets within 5 feet to compensate for the loss, which is unrealistic in the vast majority of situations. My recommendation, then, is to have the missile "ricochet" to a nearby target. First hit does 2d4+2, second 1d4+2. Any ricochet must hit a target other than the original target, but if cast at levels above 4th, all ricochet missiles can hit the same target. IMO, the powerful scaling is sort of the point of these spells; they are weak but reliable at low spell levels and surprisingly potent at high levels. You can't fire more than 6 missiles with this spell, which would deal 69 (nice!) average damage, split between two targets. This is noticeably less than the average 49 (save for 24) damage [I]per[/I] target of the 9th level AoE spell [I]weird[/I], which can target more than two targets--expect typically ~74 damage for two targets (one saves, one fails.) To say nothing of more powerful ones like [I]meteor swarm[/I] (which does a whopping 20d6 damage [I]even on a failed save[/I].) This produces a total damage of 3d4+4 = 7.5+4 = 11.5, very slightly above average for an "auto-hit" spell but spread out between two targets so it isn't that powerful (it's always better to concentrate fire.) When coupled with the "[I]shield[/I] or shielding brooch" limitation, I think that's enough to justify being slightly better damage than [I]magic missile[/I] on top of having the barrier-cracking utility. [/QUOTE]
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