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[SPELLS and MAGIC] Design Discussion
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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5079095" data-attributes="member: 957"><p>As a core design philosophy I am 100% with you. But it must be applied in a thoughtful, case-by-case manner.</p><p></p><p>Invisibility is not about sneaking. Invisibility is about not being reflective of light in the visible spectrum. Maybe that sounds like a quibble. But it is important. The rogue is better than the wizard at sneaking. Invisibility has no impact on that. But, if the wizard is invisibility, he can not be seen, sneaking or not. Does that give the wizard a huge advantage in sneaking? Yes. </p><p></p><p>The second any action merits a Sneak check, the rogue will be better. So your criteria is met. The rogue is better. Just walking up to a guard should require silence. The rogue is better. Now, you added fly in to the mix. This STILL doesn't make the wizard better at sneak. But it does make sneak irrelevant to the attempt at moving up to the human guard. This does not bother me.</p><p></p><p>Does Spider Climb harm your game? If spider climb provided a +10 to climb checks, would your game be better? As it stands, with spider climb you don't fall. So if you made it a skill check the difference would be moot until some point in time at which a wizard player botches a roll and falls. So your spider climbing wizard just fell. You have firmly established the superiority of the rogue in this application. But I don't see that you have increased fun.</p><p></p><p>Knock I can actually see as a good choice. When the spell is cast upon a locked item, any lock, even magical, may potentially be unlocked and the caster (or secondary target if you rather) gains a +10 to Disable Device. That works for me. Find Traps as a skill bonus is reality already.</p><p></p><p>I don't accept the "sit down and shut up" position. Spells are limited resources. I find the wizards are better than rogues position to be just as unfounded in actual play as the wizards are better than fighters.</p><p></p><p>When sneaking is not required, the issue is moot. When sneaking is required, either: frequently it is true that multiple instances of sneaking are in order in a relatively short time, thus demanding multiple castings; or things go sideways and the wizard better have those spells ready for resolving the problem. Even when just one "sneak" event is in order, having the rogue use his infinite supply of sneak is usually the better option. And, a flying invisible rogue getting into a good position is also frequently a better option than sending the wizard on recon because the rogue is better equipped to get in and get back out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5079095, member: 957"] As a core design philosophy I am 100% with you. But it must be applied in a thoughtful, case-by-case manner. Invisibility is not about sneaking. Invisibility is about not being reflective of light in the visible spectrum. Maybe that sounds like a quibble. But it is important. The rogue is better than the wizard at sneaking. Invisibility has no impact on that. But, if the wizard is invisibility, he can not be seen, sneaking or not. Does that give the wizard a huge advantage in sneaking? Yes. The second any action merits a Sneak check, the rogue will be better. So your criteria is met. The rogue is better. Just walking up to a guard should require silence. The rogue is better. Now, you added fly in to the mix. This STILL doesn't make the wizard better at sneak. But it does make sneak irrelevant to the attempt at moving up to the human guard. This does not bother me. Does Spider Climb harm your game? If spider climb provided a +10 to climb checks, would your game be better? As it stands, with spider climb you don't fall. So if you made it a skill check the difference would be moot until some point in time at which a wizard player botches a roll and falls. So your spider climbing wizard just fell. You have firmly established the superiority of the rogue in this application. But I don't see that you have increased fun. Knock I can actually see as a good choice. When the spell is cast upon a locked item, any lock, even magical, may potentially be unlocked and the caster (or secondary target if you rather) gains a +10 to Disable Device. That works for me. Find Traps as a skill bonus is reality already. I don't accept the "sit down and shut up" position. Spells are limited resources. I find the wizards are better than rogues position to be just as unfounded in actual play as the wizards are better than fighters. When sneaking is not required, the issue is moot. When sneaking is required, either: frequently it is true that multiple instances of sneaking are in order in a relatively short time, thus demanding multiple castings; or things go sideways and the wizard better have those spells ready for resolving the problem. Even when just one "sneak" event is in order, having the rogue use his infinite supply of sneak is usually the better option. And, a flying invisible rogue getting into a good position is also frequently a better option than sending the wizard on recon because the rogue is better equipped to get in and get back out. [/QUOTE]
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