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Split the Players Handbook into two books: Lower Tiers and Upper Tiers
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<blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 8769074" data-attributes="member: 6786252"><p>Yaarel, you are wrong. My problem with your posts has nothing to do with any playstyle I might or might not enjoy; rather, I don't think you know what the problems with high level play actually are. You're breaking and "fixing" the parts that have nothing to do with high level play, and I'm afraid that you're making things WORSE.</p><p></p><p>A good chunk of the issues with high level play can be attributed to the martial-caster divide. </p><p></p><p>Casters have the ability to target weak points with their spells - sometimes its AC, othertimes its a weak CON, DEX or WIS save. Or bypass all and use one of the rare no-save spells like Force Cube or something that targets CHA or INT (monsters rarely have INT or CHA saves). Martials only target AC.</p><p></p><p>Casters have a multitude of spells that act as game changers - summons, teleports, spells like Forbiddence, Wish, a clerics Divine Intervention... Relatedly, casters can cast large AoEs, whereas martials have to deal with groups one at a time. But martials are generally restricted to what a human could realistically acomplish, or if they do have some magic, its usually extremely limited.</p><p></p><p>You need a caster to counter another caster's ability, whereas anyone can counter martials.</p><p></p><p>The quadratic wizard versus linear warrior thing isn't as big problem in 5e as it is in other editions, though some argue its still there.</p><p></p><p>Other problems include-</p><p>Depending on party composition and magic items, monsters become increasingly difficult to pair up in terms of level. One party might have an easier time dealing with one monster, but struggle against a lower level one.</p><p></p><p>Fighters have a tendacy to fall into a rocket tag situation - person who goes first and reaches the opponent first has a strong chance of putting the enemy down first. They're not the only ones with this problem,but it is notable.</p><p></p><p>Harder to plan as a DM - abiliteis that characters have make the usual dungeon-crawl, get the McGuffin trivial, whereas earlier levels it could take up more than one session. There is a definitive SHIFT in tone and scope of the game that most DMs simply are unprepared to handle, let alone covered in enough detail. Or if its even desired.</p><p></p><p>More that I just can't remember at the moment.</p><p></p><p>Now, having specific adventures or a high level adventuring guide put out by WotC or a third party could alievate some of these issues, but not all.</p><p></p><p>Things that are not high level problems:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">spell slots versus spell points. "Cumbersome and complex" spell pool was never a barrier .</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">simple fighters without exploration features. That's either a low level problem, or a highly desired <strong><u>feature</u></strong>.</li> </ul><p></p><p>Wanting to make houserules around these? Okay, sure, that's cool. But that has nothing to do with high level play or the issues thereof.</p><p></p><p>Nope! See, the classes themselves are based around the four tiers. At level 5, martial characters get Extra Attack. Spellcasters get level 3 spells, which are deliberately and quantiatively stronger than previous levels - Fly. Fireball. Counterspell and Dispel Magic. </p><p></p><p>It happens once again at level 11 - bigger spike in damage and survivability for martial classes, and level 6 spells are massive improvements over the previous levels, to the point that you only get one of them for nearly the rest of the game.</p><p></p><p>Monsters are likewise balanced - as much as they are balanced - around these tiers. </p><p></p><p>Remember, feats are technically optional - the devs have stated more than once that the game was never designed nor balanced around the existance of feats. Users beware.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As for the rest? If you don't want to listen to flaws, then fine. I'm not going to bother you with it. I'm not going to bother with addressing the rest of that post, simply because practically every single responce is twisting what I said, and I'm frankly not going to bother with repeating "That's not what I wrote!" ad nausium. Good day</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mephista, post: 8769074, member: 6786252"] Yaarel, you are wrong. My problem with your posts has nothing to do with any playstyle I might or might not enjoy; rather, I don't think you know what the problems with high level play actually are. You're breaking and "fixing" the parts that have nothing to do with high level play, and I'm afraid that you're making things WORSE. A good chunk of the issues with high level play can be attributed to the martial-caster divide. Casters have the ability to target weak points with their spells - sometimes its AC, othertimes its a weak CON, DEX or WIS save. Or bypass all and use one of the rare no-save spells like Force Cube or something that targets CHA or INT (monsters rarely have INT or CHA saves). Martials only target AC. Casters have a multitude of spells that act as game changers - summons, teleports, spells like Forbiddence, Wish, a clerics Divine Intervention... Relatedly, casters can cast large AoEs, whereas martials have to deal with groups one at a time. But martials are generally restricted to what a human could realistically acomplish, or if they do have some magic, its usually extremely limited. You need a caster to counter another caster's ability, whereas anyone can counter martials. The quadratic wizard versus linear warrior thing isn't as big problem in 5e as it is in other editions, though some argue its still there. Other problems include- Depending on party composition and magic items, monsters become increasingly difficult to pair up in terms of level. One party might have an easier time dealing with one monster, but struggle against a lower level one. Fighters have a tendacy to fall into a rocket tag situation - person who goes first and reaches the opponent first has a strong chance of putting the enemy down first. They're not the only ones with this problem,but it is notable. Harder to plan as a DM - abiliteis that characters have make the usual dungeon-crawl, get the McGuffin trivial, whereas earlier levels it could take up more than one session. There is a definitive SHIFT in tone and scope of the game that most DMs simply are unprepared to handle, let alone covered in enough detail. Or if its even desired. More that I just can't remember at the moment. Now, having specific adventures or a high level adventuring guide put out by WotC or a third party could alievate some of these issues, but not all. Things that are not high level problems: [LIST] [*]spell slots versus spell points. "Cumbersome and complex" spell pool was never a barrier . [*]simple fighters without exploration features. That's either a low level problem, or a highly desired [B][U]feature[/U][/B]. [/LIST] Wanting to make houserules around these? Okay, sure, that's cool. But that has nothing to do with high level play or the issues thereof. Nope! See, the classes themselves are based around the four tiers. At level 5, martial characters get Extra Attack. Spellcasters get level 3 spells, which are deliberately and quantiatively stronger than previous levels - Fly. Fireball. Counterspell and Dispel Magic. It happens once again at level 11 - bigger spike in damage and survivability for martial classes, and level 6 spells are massive improvements over the previous levels, to the point that you only get one of them for nearly the rest of the game. Monsters are likewise balanced - as much as they are balanced - around these tiers. Remember, feats are technically optional - the devs have stated more than once that the game was never designed nor balanced around the existance of feats. Users beware. As for the rest? If you don't want to listen to flaws, then fine. I'm not going to bother you with it. I'm not going to bother with addressing the rest of that post, simply because practically every single responce is twisting what I said, and I'm frankly not going to bother with repeating "That's not what I wrote!" ad nausium. Good day [/QUOTE]
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