Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
EN Publishing
[Spoilers] Arkgeist Chronicles
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EarthSeraphEdna" data-source="post: 7830904" data-attributes="member: 49309"><p>I am one of the two players in this take on <em>Zeitgeist</em>. This adventure path has been the single greatest premade adventure path I have ever played, but that comes with a disclaimer of me having high standards for adventure-writing. This overall campaign has likewise been the single best campaign I have ever played, but that likewise comes with a disclaimer that much of it was due to the DM heavily expanding upon the presented material, which had significant shortcomings in many spots, and I doubt that the campaign would have been anywhere as good or as memorable if the DM simply ran the campaign as-is.</p><p></p><p>I like <em>Zeitgeist</em>, I really do. It is, again, my single favorite premade adventure. But it has holes, so many holes, and more than half of the plotlines fall flat in some way. At the very least, the setting as presented in the player's guide has so many subtle yet major differences from how the setting is depicted in the actual adventure path. The biggest disappointment is how Nicodemus and the Obscurati fall flat as an antagonist due to not having that much of an actual philosophical agenda when closely scrutinized.</p><p></p><p>There are so many other smaller cases of plotlines fizzling out as presented at a baseline by default, like the industrial tensions, the fey technology sickness, the role of Heid Eschatol, the Vekeshi as a whole (you will notice that I am playing an eladrin, yet more or less completely sidelined the Vekeshi idea, and I think the adventure path does a bad job of selling the Vekeshi as something to take interest in), the Obscurati convocation at Mutravir, Roland Stanfield as a villain (he gives a really nonsensical speech), the Voice of Rot as a villain (so much for the "cry out, for at the end of time, I rise" foreshadowing), and so many other plot threads.</p><p></p><p>Quite a few plot threads rely on the PCs never really asking questions or poking around, like spotting the Pardo-duplicant in Ber, internalizing the importance of Axis Island, remembering that the Voice of Rot actually exists, or realizing that there is no way that the Flint lighthouse ritual (which makes absolutely no sense from a narrative perspective) is the actual Axis Seal ritual.</p><p></p><p>The various "rules" on how planar magic and esoteric magic (e.g. the Sacrament of Apotheosis, Mortal Possession, duplicants, hiveminds and gestalts, Borne's travel times through the Dreaming, wayfarer's lanterns, planar lighthouses, the properties of the Axis Seal, planar traits) work have been extremely inconsistent, frustratingly so. That has been a problem, because I have been trying to play this adventure path in a somewhat "scientific" manner by experimenting with the many magics the adventure presents, and the adventure path can never actually handle them in a consistent manner. All of these strange magics work almost <strong>entirely</strong> differently from one book to another. Ironically, it is hard to play a character trying to tackle the age of science and invention in an actually "scientific" manner, because the rules of the world keep changing for no reason.</p><p></p><p>Indeed, I am the type of player who keeps on pointing to various things that crop up in the adventure path and asking quetions, like "Why did the Great Malice work in the way it did?", "What is the actual philosophy of Nicodemus and the Obscurati?" (the really big question here), "What is the deal with Ingatan and Hewanharimau?", "How do hiveminds and gestalts actually work?", "Why are all these eladrin ghosts in Ascetia?", and the adventure path often shows its cracks in the face of these inquiries.</p><p></p><p>I understand that much of the above can be chalked up to page count and word count issues, though. <em>Zeitgeist</em> really is a vast and sprawling adventure, so there are many plot threads that are poorly explained and/or dropped outright, leaving the DM/GM to fill in the gaping gaps.</p><p></p><p>The mechanics are one of my biggest sticking points. We have had to toss out virtually <strong>all</strong> of the mechanics from the player's guide, because they have been badly written in so many ways, particularly the theme rules and the firearm rules. The monsters in the 4e version are lovingly crafted, very much so, and they often adhere to generation 3 math, which is genuinely impressive and praiseworthy. But the monsters are amateurishly and sloppily designed on the whole, unable to really hold up to the rigorous standards of people more experienced with 4e and its encounters. Various other mechanics in the 4e version have also been on the completely unfun side, most notably the many cases of antimagic (which really, really, <strong>really</strong> do not belong in 4e at all). In many cases, I have been called in as the 4e rules expert to judge how well-written a given mechanic in <em>Zeitgeist</em> is, and my assessment is usually, "No, this is not all that well-written."</p><p></p><p>I have recently been making preparations to (re)start my own <em>Zeitgeist</em> game, which has been on hiatus for a while. Since the middle of last year or thereabouts, I have been studying <em>Zeitgeist</em> together with arkwright essentially every other day, if not every day. This has been one of our biggest hobbies together, and we really put a strong effort into picking apart the adventure path, scrutinizing its every detail, and trying to make it better. Arkwright and I love <em>Zeitgeist</em>, we truly do, and our specific brand of appreciating it together is diving deep into its innards and trying to figure out its shortcomings, so that we can make the adventure better in our own games.</p><p></p><p>It has been quite the metaphorical ride, Ryan Nock. Thank you for everything thus far.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EarthSeraphEdna, post: 7830904, member: 49309"] I am one of the two players in this take on [I]Zeitgeist[/I]. This adventure path has been the single greatest premade adventure path I have ever played, but that comes with a disclaimer of me having high standards for adventure-writing. This overall campaign has likewise been the single best campaign I have ever played, but that likewise comes with a disclaimer that much of it was due to the DM heavily expanding upon the presented material, which had significant shortcomings in many spots, and I doubt that the campaign would have been anywhere as good or as memorable if the DM simply ran the campaign as-is. I like [I]Zeitgeist[/I], I really do. It is, again, my single favorite premade adventure. But it has holes, so many holes, and more than half of the plotlines fall flat in some way. At the very least, the setting as presented in the player's guide has so many subtle yet major differences from how the setting is depicted in the actual adventure path. The biggest disappointment is how Nicodemus and the Obscurati fall flat as an antagonist due to not having that much of an actual philosophical agenda when closely scrutinized. There are so many other smaller cases of plotlines fizzling out as presented at a baseline by default, like the industrial tensions, the fey technology sickness, the role of Heid Eschatol, the Vekeshi as a whole (you will notice that I am playing an eladrin, yet more or less completely sidelined the Vekeshi idea, and I think the adventure path does a bad job of selling the Vekeshi as something to take interest in), the Obscurati convocation at Mutravir, Roland Stanfield as a villain (he gives a really nonsensical speech), the Voice of Rot as a villain (so much for the "cry out, for at the end of time, I rise" foreshadowing), and so many other plot threads. Quite a few plot threads rely on the PCs never really asking questions or poking around, like spotting the Pardo-duplicant in Ber, internalizing the importance of Axis Island, remembering that the Voice of Rot actually exists, or realizing that there is no way that the Flint lighthouse ritual (which makes absolutely no sense from a narrative perspective) is the actual Axis Seal ritual. The various "rules" on how planar magic and esoteric magic (e.g. the Sacrament of Apotheosis, Mortal Possession, duplicants, hiveminds and gestalts, Borne's travel times through the Dreaming, wayfarer's lanterns, planar lighthouses, the properties of the Axis Seal, planar traits) work have been extremely inconsistent, frustratingly so. That has been a problem, because I have been trying to play this adventure path in a somewhat "scientific" manner by experimenting with the many magics the adventure presents, and the adventure path can never actually handle them in a consistent manner. All of these strange magics work almost [B]entirely[/B] differently from one book to another. Ironically, it is hard to play a character trying to tackle the age of science and invention in an actually "scientific" manner, because the rules of the world keep changing for no reason. Indeed, I am the type of player who keeps on pointing to various things that crop up in the adventure path and asking quetions, like "Why did the Great Malice work in the way it did?", "What is the actual philosophy of Nicodemus and the Obscurati?" (the really big question here), "What is the deal with Ingatan and Hewanharimau?", "How do hiveminds and gestalts actually work?", "Why are all these eladrin ghosts in Ascetia?", and the adventure path often shows its cracks in the face of these inquiries. I understand that much of the above can be chalked up to page count and word count issues, though. [I]Zeitgeist[/I] really is a vast and sprawling adventure, so there are many plot threads that are poorly explained and/or dropped outright, leaving the DM/GM to fill in the gaping gaps. The mechanics are one of my biggest sticking points. We have had to toss out virtually [B]all[/B] of the mechanics from the player's guide, because they have been badly written in so many ways, particularly the theme rules and the firearm rules. The monsters in the 4e version are lovingly crafted, very much so, and they often adhere to generation 3 math, which is genuinely impressive and praiseworthy. But the monsters are amateurishly and sloppily designed on the whole, unable to really hold up to the rigorous standards of people more experienced with 4e and its encounters. Various other mechanics in the 4e version have also been on the completely unfun side, most notably the many cases of antimagic (which really, really, [B]really[/B] do not belong in 4e at all). In many cases, I have been called in as the 4e rules expert to judge how well-written a given mechanic in [I]Zeitgeist[/I] is, and my assessment is usually, "No, this is not all that well-written." I have recently been making preparations to (re)start my own [I]Zeitgeist[/I] game, which has been on hiatus for a while. Since the middle of last year or thereabouts, I have been studying [I]Zeitgeist[/I] together with arkwright essentially every other day, if not every day. This has been one of our biggest hobbies together, and we really put a strong effort into picking apart the adventure path, scrutinizing its every detail, and trying to make it better. Arkwright and I love [I]Zeitgeist[/I], we truly do, and our specific brand of appreciating it together is diving deep into its innards and trying to figure out its shortcomings, so that we can make the adventure better in our own games. It has been quite the metaphorical ride, Ryan Nock. Thank you for everything thus far. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
EN Publishing
[Spoilers] Arkgeist Chronicles
Top