Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Stalker0's Guide to Anti-Grind
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Osric_of_O" data-source="post: 5224376" data-attributes="member: 91793"><p><strong>Kill Grind with roleplaying</strong></p><p></p><p>I recently had an encounter (Brugg the Enforcer in H2) where the players started getting creative after their attack had failed to take down the Brute, and wanting to use a Free Action to get an Intimidate on him. I was indignant about anyone wanting a freebie fight-winner like that and flatly refused... And no one wanted to forego an actual attack to do a proper Standard Action Intimidate.</p><p></p><p>Analyzing it afterwards I realized that what had <em>really</em> been going on was that the fight was won, no one was having any fun grinding to the end, and though they didn't realize it consciously, <em>that</em> was what was making the players look for other ways to end it.</p><p></p><p>To reiterate Slayer0's point: if it's a grind, it needs to be brought to a satisfying conclusion as soon as possible (apart from when the drain on the party is important to the strength they might be able to bring to subsequent encounters). A standalone battle, like mine was, definitely needs to be ended gracefully.</p><p></p><p>So in situations like that, you need to signal to your players that the Intimidate needn't be a wasted action. Even for Brutes, the majority that are sentient are unlikely to want to fight to the death if that can't possibly achieve anything, so roleplay the monsters with a bit of intelligence and allow them to yield for the sake of a better game.</p><p> They could just surrender. But letting a PC action achieve the victory is surely more satisfying.</p><p></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Roleplay only as much as will be engaging or fun for your players. Don't lead them to expect that you'll make their lives difficult with the need to babysit prisoners or with surrendered enemies suddenly going back on the offensive. It's realistic for beaten foes to be properly daunted by the PCs and/or honourable about their defeat.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The Rules-As-Written don't offer any black and white situational modifiers for Intimidate, except that in combat it can only work on Bloodied targets -- fair enough! -- and versus hostile targets is an attack at -10 vs their Will defence.<br /> Maybe offer situational +2s (1) for being cornered, and (2) for every attacker currently pounding on them. Offer a situational +5 if the total DPS is likely to put them down within a round and they don't even have a Bloodied target worth attriting on.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If a Minor Action can net you a Perception roll, let it allow an Insight roll too, to allow a PC to read whether an Intimidate is likely to be successful. <br /> Heck, if things are bad enough, you might eventually be able to give them it via Passive Insight!</li> </ol><p>Cheers!</p><p><strong><em>--Os.</em></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Osric_of_O, post: 5224376, member: 91793"] [b]Kill Grind with roleplaying[/b] I recently had an encounter (Brugg the Enforcer in H2) where the players started getting creative after their attack had failed to take down the Brute, and wanting to use a Free Action to get an Intimidate on him. I was indignant about anyone wanting a freebie fight-winner like that and flatly refused... And no one wanted to forego an actual attack to do a proper Standard Action Intimidate. Analyzing it afterwards I realized that what had [I]really[/I] been going on was that the fight was won, no one was having any fun grinding to the end, and though they didn't realize it consciously, [I]that[/I] was what was making the players look for other ways to end it. To reiterate Slayer0's point: if it's a grind, it needs to be brought to a satisfying conclusion as soon as possible (apart from when the drain on the party is important to the strength they might be able to bring to subsequent encounters). A standalone battle, like mine was, definitely needs to be ended gracefully. So in situations like that, you need to signal to your players that the Intimidate needn't be a wasted action. Even for Brutes, the majority that are sentient are unlikely to want to fight to the death if that can't possibly achieve anything, so roleplay the monsters with a bit of intelligence and allow them to yield for the sake of a better game. They could just surrender. But letting a PC action achieve the victory is surely more satisfying. [LIST=1] [*]Roleplay only as much as will be engaging or fun for your players. Don't lead them to expect that you'll make their lives difficult with the need to babysit prisoners or with surrendered enemies suddenly going back on the offensive. It's realistic for beaten foes to be properly daunted by the PCs and/or honourable about their defeat. [*]The Rules-As-Written don't offer any black and white situational modifiers for Intimidate, except that in combat it can only work on Bloodied targets -- fair enough! -- and versus hostile targets is an attack at -10 vs their Will defence. Maybe offer situational +2s (1) for being cornered, and (2) for every attacker currently pounding on them. Offer a situational +5 if the total DPS is likely to put them down within a round and they don't even have a Bloodied target worth attriting on. [*]If a Minor Action can net you a Perception roll, let it allow an Insight roll too, to allow a PC to read whether an Intimidate is likely to be successful. Heck, if things are bad enough, you might eventually be able to give them it via Passive Insight! [/LIST] Cheers! [B][I]--Os.[/I][/B] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Stalker0's Guide to Anti-Grind
Top