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<blockquote data-quote="Aus_Snow" data-source="post: 5469438" data-attributes="member: 29112"><p>Went on a bit of a tangent there, sorry. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>As for +4s, I would say that for the most part, -2s and even -4s mightn't mean <em>anything at all</em>. For example, the Orc might as well just have -2 Wis, as that actually affects something that is even somewhat likely to come up during play. Int and Cha? Feh - just means they're being gently nudged away from certain classes. So, a total of +2, in effect. But even then, the -2 Wis is less likely to matter than, say, Con or Dex. <em>By far</em>. So really, it's closer to just +4.</p><p></p><p>All that matters is how it'll play out, most of the time, IMO. Not how it adds up on paper. Attacks and defences (e.g., saves), along with durability in general, are the biggies, of course.</p><p></p><p>Mind you, then there's the core Dwarf... Hm. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /> Just the first that springs to mind.</p><p></p><p>Some things are not very well balanced, as is. The fundamental system of balancing races, and to some extent monsters - though that's a different system, in some ways, natch - is a bit lacking, suffice it to say.</p><p></p><p>I think some good work was done wrt that, for Pathfinder - adjusting things according to how they'll probably work out in play. But there's a lot more that needs to be done. YMMV, etc. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oops, just as tangential. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aus_Snow, post: 5469438, member: 29112"] Went on a bit of a tangent there, sorry. :D As for +4s, I would say that for the most part, -2s and even -4s mightn't mean [I]anything at all[/I]. For example, the Orc might as well just have -2 Wis, as that actually affects something that is even somewhat likely to come up during play. Int and Cha? Feh - just means they're being gently nudged away from certain classes. So, a total of +2, in effect. But even then, the -2 Wis is less likely to matter than, say, Con or Dex. [I]By far[/I]. So really, it's closer to just +4. All that matters is how it'll play out, most of the time, IMO. Not how it adds up on paper. Attacks and defences (e.g., saves), along with durability in general, are the biggies, of course. Mind you, then there's the core Dwarf... Hm. :hmm: Just the first that springs to mind. Some things are not very well balanced, as is. The fundamental system of balancing races, and to some extent monsters - though that's a different system, in some ways, natch - is a bit lacking, suffice it to say. I think some good work was done wrt that, for Pathfinder - adjusting things according to how they'll probably work out in play. But there's a lot more that needs to be done. YMMV, etc. :) Oops, just as tangential. :o [/QUOTE]
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