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<blockquote data-quote="DumbPaladin" data-source="post: 5668788" data-attributes="member: 90770"><p>More than a little, I think.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't believe so: the Orc choices are pretty much a powergamer/munchkin's dream. </p><p></p><p>Both boost Strength by +4, allowing a possibility of a starting STR of 22 at level 1, which is already better than anything any other PC race can do.</p><p></p><p>But suggesting that a -2 to Charisma is enough to offset +4 to Strength isn't going to work. Dwarves are arguably the best choice for stat modifiers: they get a +2 boost to 2 of the 3 stats that are tied to saving throws, and they lose -2 from the stat that most non-casting classes use as a dump stat anyway: Charisma. They receive a slight negative of moving at 20 feet, but really that's the only balancing factor. Every other race that has a racial negative loses it to an important physical attribute.</p><p></p><p>Most dwarven PCs do not even remotely care about losing 2 Charisma. I suspect it will be the same for anyone playing your hypothetical Orcs.</p><p></p><p>Charisma just isn't important as an attribute, unless you're a Bard, a Paladin, a Sorcerer, or an Oracle. Maybe still slightly important to a Cleric.</p><p></p><p>The -2 to Charisma is just not a balancing factor. Make it -2 to Constitution and you will get a lot closer to something less easily abused, but it'd be even better to drop the +4 all together.</p><p></p><p>Also: balancing +4 to Strength and Charisma with a -2 to the two mental stats is not going to matter to anyone choosing to play a melee class. -2 to Dex and -2 to Int would be a somewhat better combination.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DumbPaladin, post: 5668788, member: 90770"] More than a little, I think. I don't believe so: the Orc choices are pretty much a powergamer/munchkin's dream. Both boost Strength by +4, allowing a possibility of a starting STR of 22 at level 1, which is already better than anything any other PC race can do. But suggesting that a -2 to Charisma is enough to offset +4 to Strength isn't going to work. Dwarves are arguably the best choice for stat modifiers: they get a +2 boost to 2 of the 3 stats that are tied to saving throws, and they lose -2 from the stat that most non-casting classes use as a dump stat anyway: Charisma. They receive a slight negative of moving at 20 feet, but really that's the only balancing factor. Every other race that has a racial negative loses it to an important physical attribute. Most dwarven PCs do not even remotely care about losing 2 Charisma. I suspect it will be the same for anyone playing your hypothetical Orcs. Charisma just isn't important as an attribute, unless you're a Bard, a Paladin, a Sorcerer, or an Oracle. Maybe still slightly important to a Cleric. The -2 to Charisma is just not a balancing factor. Make it -2 to Constitution and you will get a lot closer to something less easily abused, but it'd be even better to drop the +4 all together. Also: balancing +4 to Strength and Charisma with a -2 to the two mental stats is not going to matter to anyone choosing to play a melee class. -2 to Dex and -2 to Int would be a somewhat better combination. [/QUOTE]
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