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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Stealth Expert
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<blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 8875947" data-attributes="member: 6674931"><p>In all honesty no, it does not help. This is so poorly written that it actually makes no sense.</p><p>Why would I need to hide if I am already unseen? ... if I am already out of sight? </p><p>Why would I need to attempt to hide in an area where I am already heavily obscured in respect to others? An area where vision is already blocked and creatures are already effectively blinded?</p><p></p><p>Stealth is, and always will be, hard to pinpoint, I get it ... But what both 5e and Level Up fail to do is specify the game conditions UNDER WHICH you can attempt a hide check, when at the same time they both provide specific conditions of obscureness:</p><p>1) Heavily obscured/Darkness</p><p>2) Lightly obscured/Dim light</p><p>3) Not obscured/Bright light</p><p></p><p>...Instead, they both provide an explicit condition for the "Skulker" (mind you that Feats are optional in 5e) and it's copycat, the "Stealth Expert".</p><p></p><p>And please, don't even try to tell me that I am supposed to deduce the ruling of a core mechanic out of an (optional) Feat ... and again, let's not forget the addition of "clearly" in the 5e Stealth paragraph ... which speaks enough of their intention to drown a poorly written Stealth paragraph in vagueness and "DM adjudication" by alluding to the "lightly obscured"condition ...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Let's see what 3.5 does with Stealth shall we?</p><p></p><p><em>You need <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover" target="_blank">cover</a> or <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment" target="_blank">concealment</a> in order to attempt a Hide check.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>In an area of shadowy illumination, a character can see dimly. Creatures within this area have <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment" target="_blank">concealment</a> relative to that character. A creature in an area of shadowy illumination can make a <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm" target="_blank">Hide</a> check to conceal itself.</em></p><p></p><p>Well, thats pretty clear. And it's not like there is no DM adjudication. The DM can easily give as many -2 or +2 "conditional modifiers" as he sees fit based on the quality of the concealment, making it from easy, to hard or even impossible.</p><p></p><p>For 5e we already new it was poorly written via "natural" language. But when I spend my 20 on something that goes by the name of "advanced 5e" and which is, among other things, supposed to address exploration ... well color me disappointed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jimlock, post: 8875947, member: 6674931"] In all honesty no, it does not help. This is so poorly written that it actually makes no sense. Why would I need to hide if I am already unseen? ... if I am already out of sight? Why would I need to attempt to hide in an area where I am already heavily obscured in respect to others? An area where vision is already blocked and creatures are already effectively blinded? Stealth is, and always will be, hard to pinpoint, I get it ... But what both 5e and Level Up fail to do is specify the game conditions UNDER WHICH you can attempt a hide check, when at the same time they both provide specific conditions of obscureness: 1) Heavily obscured/Darkness 2) Lightly obscured/Dim light 3) Not obscured/Bright light ...Instead, they both provide an explicit condition for the "Skulker" (mind you that Feats are optional in 5e) and it's copycat, the "Stealth Expert". And please, don't even try to tell me that I am supposed to deduce the ruling of a core mechanic out of an (optional) Feat ... and again, let's not forget the addition of "clearly" in the 5e Stealth paragraph ... which speaks enough of their intention to drown a poorly written Stealth paragraph in vagueness and "DM adjudication" by alluding to the "lightly obscured"condition ... Let's see what 3.5 does with Stealth shall we? [I]You need [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover']cover[/URL] or [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment']concealment[/URL] in order to attempt a Hide check. In an area of shadowy illumination, a character can see dimly. Creatures within this area have [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment']concealment[/URL] relative to that character. A creature in an area of shadowy illumination can make a [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm']Hide[/URL] check to conceal itself.[/I] Well, thats pretty clear. And it's not like there is no DM adjudication. The DM can easily give as many -2 or +2 "conditional modifiers" as he sees fit based on the quality of the concealment, making it from easy, to hard or even impossible. For 5e we already new it was poorly written via "natural" language. But when I spend my 20 on something that goes by the name of "advanced 5e" and which is, among other things, supposed to address exploration ... well color me disappointed. [/QUOTE]
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