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Stop the 1st level Rogue
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<blockquote data-quote="reanjr" data-source="post: 1704628" data-attributes="member: 20740"><p>If one is deciding to become a X/Rogue, what reason would there be to start at 1st level with X rather than Rogue? I'm speaking of the long run. Now I know you get full HP, but even the barbarian is only going to be 6 hp ahead (and if you are going for Barbarian/Rogue you are likely going to have a high Con).</p><p></p><p>Here's a summary of the different 1st level class combinations:</p><p>Barbarian: +6 hp, -16 skill points</p><p>Bard: -8 skill points</p><p>Cleric: +2 hp, -24 skill points</p><p>Druid, Monk: +2 hp, -16 skill points</p><p>Fighter, Paladin: +4 hp, -24 skill points</p><p>Ranger: +2 hp, -8 skill points</p><p>Sorcerer, Wizard: -2 hp, -24 skill points</p><p></p><p>The following are NOT rogues skills: Concentration, Handle Animal, Knowledge (all but local), Ride, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Survival.</p><p></p><p>Is there anything I'm missing? Are there any other benefits that you only get at 1st level besides the full hp and multiplied skill points?</p><p></p><p>If not, it would seem the Rogue is a no brainer for 1st level. Sorcerers and Wizards are almost unarguably behind. The only benefit they have is Spellcraft and Concentration being class skills. And guess what. With the extra 24 skill points the Rogue gets, he can max both of these out at first level anyway and still have extra skills and higher HP.</p><p></p><p>The Bard/Rogue with the good number of skill points they get also have no problem using their Bard levels to max out their class-specific skills, while using Rogue for everything else.</p><p></p><p>Rangers are probably about even. +2 hp is a fair tradeoff for 8 skill points. But by this you can tell that Druids and Monks get a bit of the shaft, losing out on an additional 8 skill points above and beyond the Ranger, and the Cleric is way behind at a whopping -24 skill points for only +2 hp.</p><p></p><p>Barbarians are probably the best contender. +6 hp for -16 skill points is even a better ratio than the Ranger. But Fighters and Paladin's trail this at only +4 hp and -24 skill points.</p><p></p><p>Is there anything that could tempt a character away from taking Rogue first level (with the possible exception of Barbarian and Ranger)?</p><p></p><p>The multiplier for skills I assume is intended (other than for game balance) to represent the great amount of time, effort, and training to start out with their first class. Additional levels would assumably represent more incremental leaps.</p><p></p><p>Next post I'll talk about some suggestions I have for how you could make these classes a bit more desirable. Any other ideas are welcome as well as criticism on my ideas or this entire thread's point.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="reanjr, post: 1704628, member: 20740"] If one is deciding to become a X/Rogue, what reason would there be to start at 1st level with X rather than Rogue? I'm speaking of the long run. Now I know you get full HP, but even the barbarian is only going to be 6 hp ahead (and if you are going for Barbarian/Rogue you are likely going to have a high Con). Here's a summary of the different 1st level class combinations: Barbarian: +6 hp, -16 skill points Bard: -8 skill points Cleric: +2 hp, -24 skill points Druid, Monk: +2 hp, -16 skill points Fighter, Paladin: +4 hp, -24 skill points Ranger: +2 hp, -8 skill points Sorcerer, Wizard: -2 hp, -24 skill points The following are NOT rogues skills: Concentration, Handle Animal, Knowledge (all but local), Ride, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Survival. Is there anything I'm missing? Are there any other benefits that you only get at 1st level besides the full hp and multiplied skill points? If not, it would seem the Rogue is a no brainer for 1st level. Sorcerers and Wizards are almost unarguably behind. The only benefit they have is Spellcraft and Concentration being class skills. And guess what. With the extra 24 skill points the Rogue gets, he can max both of these out at first level anyway and still have extra skills and higher HP. The Bard/Rogue with the good number of skill points they get also have no problem using their Bard levels to max out their class-specific skills, while using Rogue for everything else. Rangers are probably about even. +2 hp is a fair tradeoff for 8 skill points. But by this you can tell that Druids and Monks get a bit of the shaft, losing out on an additional 8 skill points above and beyond the Ranger, and the Cleric is way behind at a whopping -24 skill points for only +2 hp. Barbarians are probably the best contender. +6 hp for -16 skill points is even a better ratio than the Ranger. But Fighters and Paladin's trail this at only +4 hp and -24 skill points. Is there anything that could tempt a character away from taking Rogue first level (with the possible exception of Barbarian and Ranger)? The multiplier for skills I assume is intended (other than for game balance) to represent the great amount of time, effort, and training to start out with their first class. Additional levels would assumably represent more incremental leaps. Next post I'll talk about some suggestions I have for how you could make these classes a bit more desirable. Any other ideas are welcome as well as criticism on my ideas or this entire thread's point. [/QUOTE]
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