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<blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 7089938" data-attributes="member: 6787503"><p>A sleeping creature is unaware of its surroundings, but it doesn't follow that its senses have ceased to function or that there's anything physiologically different about its senses when it's asleep. What "unaware of its surroundings" means in this case is that it isn't consciously aware of what its senses are nevertheless picking up. Sleeping creatures are not blind, deaf, et cetera. They are unconscious. Conversely, hearing (or sensing in some other way) is not awareness if it lacks consciousness. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There's a lot that happens between the assassin standing 5 feet away from his or her victim, not attacking, and the dagger blade actually stabbing through the victim's flesh. I would place the trigger at the beginning of this transitional period, which I would consider part of the attack, so the trigger happens before the attack has been completed. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. In my games, a declaration by a player at the table to attack another creature, like any other action-declaration, introduces into the fiction that the player's character is actually beginning to undertake said attack. The resolution of the attack (or other action) is what must wait for the player's "turn". So we have an attack-declaration from the player, which is what the player has said that his or her character <strong>is</strong> trying to do in the fiction. Because it's an attack, the action must be resolved in combat rounds, so we then begin combat, at which point the attack and any other simultaneous actions or counter-actions can be resolved. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's the commencement (but not the resolution) of the action that combat rounds were entered to resolve. Most commonly, it's that one side begins to attack the other. When I DM, if it's the monsters attacking the PCs, I describe the monsters beginning their attack in some way that makes it obvious to the players (and their characters) that battle is in the process of erupting. On the other hand, if (one of) the players has/have declared an action that needs to be resolved in combat, then that action is considered to be in progress, and even if the player(s) later change(s) his/her/their mind(s) about what to do on his/her/their actual first turn(s) in combat, the original declared action is considered to have been started by the PC(s) to the extent that any actions taken by the other side are in reaction to it. Then I call for initiative. That's the start of combat. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They don't have to be conscious/aware of things to sense them and be awoken by them. Hearing/seeing, etc. is not awareness if it lacks consciousness.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hriston, post: 7089938, member: 6787503"] A sleeping creature is unaware of its surroundings, but it doesn't follow that its senses have ceased to function or that there's anything physiologically different about its senses when it's asleep. What "unaware of its surroundings" means in this case is that it isn't consciously aware of what its senses are nevertheless picking up. Sleeping creatures are not blind, deaf, et cetera. They are unconscious. Conversely, hearing (or sensing in some other way) is not awareness if it lacks consciousness. There's a lot that happens between the assassin standing 5 feet away from his or her victim, not attacking, and the dagger blade actually stabbing through the victim's flesh. I would place the trigger at the beginning of this transitional period, which I would consider part of the attack, so the trigger happens before the attack has been completed. No. In my games, a declaration by a player at the table to attack another creature, like any other action-declaration, introduces into the fiction that the player's character is actually beginning to undertake said attack. The resolution of the attack (or other action) is what must wait for the player's "turn". So we have an attack-declaration from the player, which is what the player has said that his or her character [B]is[/B] trying to do in the fiction. Because it's an attack, the action must be resolved in combat rounds, so we then begin combat, at which point the attack and any other simultaneous actions or counter-actions can be resolved. It's the commencement (but not the resolution) of the action that combat rounds were entered to resolve. Most commonly, it's that one side begins to attack the other. When I DM, if it's the monsters attacking the PCs, I describe the monsters beginning their attack in some way that makes it obvious to the players (and their characters) that battle is in the process of erupting. On the other hand, if (one of) the players has/have declared an action that needs to be resolved in combat, then that action is considered to be in progress, and even if the player(s) later change(s) his/her/their mind(s) about what to do on his/her/their actual first turn(s) in combat, the original declared action is considered to have been started by the PC(s) to the extent that any actions taken by the other side are in reaction to it. Then I call for initiative. That's the start of combat. They don't have to be conscious/aware of things to sense them and be awoken by them. Hearing/seeing, etc. is not awareness if it lacks consciousness. [/QUOTE]
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