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<blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 7113285" data-attributes="member: 6787503"><p>The text absolutely does limit ability checks to such situations! Here's the full text (with the relevant part in boldface): "An ability check tests a character's or monster's innate talent and training <strong>in an effort to overcome a challenge.</strong>" That emphasized phrase <em>limits</em> when a creature's talent and training are measured by an ability check. Only "in an effort to overcome a challenge" is the result of an ability check applicable to the outcome of the situation in question. The corresponding, also true statement is that an ability check <strong>does not test</strong> a character's or monster's innate talent and training <strong>in the absence of</strong> an effort to overcome a challenge. So when considering whether to call for an ability check to determine if a sleeping creature notices an approaching attacker, the DM should take into account whether the sleeping creature is making an effort to do so. Considering that the last action declared by the creature's player was for the creature to go to sleep, an action that is actually the opposite of staying alert and aware of one's surroundings, the answer is that no ability check is warranted in making that determination. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, then you're misleading your audience. The "Rolling With It" playstyle you advocate comes with the disclaimer that it discourages roleplaying, yet you've told me and the impressionable readers you imagine you're helping that to play any other way is not "correct". The truth is that I and others like myself prefer a game where the dice are used judiciously and dramatically, and not for determining everything under the sun from the timing of a creature's bodily functions to the random sounds of a city street. In my games, establishing such colorful elements is left within the purview of the DM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hriston, post: 7113285, member: 6787503"] The text absolutely does limit ability checks to such situations! Here's the full text (with the relevant part in boldface): "An ability check tests a character's or monster's innate talent and training [B]in an effort to overcome a challenge.[/B]" That emphasized phrase [I]limits[/I] when a creature's talent and training are measured by an ability check. Only "in an effort to overcome a challenge" is the result of an ability check applicable to the outcome of the situation in question. The corresponding, also true statement is that an ability check [B]does not test[/B] a character's or monster's innate talent and training [B]in the absence of[/B] an effort to overcome a challenge. So when considering whether to call for an ability check to determine if a sleeping creature notices an approaching attacker, the DM should take into account whether the sleeping creature is making an effort to do so. Considering that the last action declared by the creature's player was for the creature to go to sleep, an action that is actually the opposite of staying alert and aware of one's surroundings, the answer is that no ability check is warranted in making that determination. Well, then you're misleading your audience. The "Rolling With It" playstyle you advocate comes with the disclaimer that it discourages roleplaying, yet you've told me and the impressionable readers you imagine you're helping that to play any other way is not "correct". The truth is that I and others like myself prefer a game where the dice are used judiciously and dramatically, and not for determining everything under the sun from the timing of a creature's bodily functions to the random sounds of a city street. In my games, establishing such colorful elements is left within the purview of the DM. [/QUOTE]
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