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Survivor Cannon Fodder: Gruumsh smiles, Orcs win.
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7019816" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>No, that just is more indication of the Tolkien roots of OD&D. In original D&D, all the uglies were the same race - just as they were in Tolkien. And half-orcs were explicitly mentioned in the text of The Lord of the Rings, so half-orcs were perforce a playable race. The origin of the D&D hobgoblin is a single line in the Hobbit, mentioning hobgoblins a larger, meaner form of goblin common in the Grey Mountains of the north. At the time the term was introduced in OD&D, 'half-orc' would have referred equally to a half-orc or a half-hobgoblin, and the term was simply preferential from the Tolkien text.</p><p></p><p>Orcs and Goblins at some point shortly after the two-axis alignment system was introduced and D&D began to be its own thing with its own lore became rivals (much like the split between demons and devils) led by Gruumsh and Maglubiyet, and then orcs split off from the rest of goblin-kind into their own group. </p><p></p><p>Orcs themselves didn't become a playable race until an early article in Dragon, which made goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds and xzarts playable races at exactly the same time.</p><p></p><p>The name of the article was not, "Do you want to be an orc?" It was "Do you want to be a kobold?" </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that you are proving my point for me though by citing 'pop culture' references rather than the text of D&D as it was actually played. </p><p></p><p>I'm also thinking that this could very much be something you perceive based on the era you are arrived in - OD&D, early AD&D and the classic modules, Forgotten Realms and 'Baldur's Gate' era, 3e, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7019816, member: 4937"] No, that just is more indication of the Tolkien roots of OD&D. In original D&D, all the uglies were the same race - just as they were in Tolkien. And half-orcs were explicitly mentioned in the text of The Lord of the Rings, so half-orcs were perforce a playable race. The origin of the D&D hobgoblin is a single line in the Hobbit, mentioning hobgoblins a larger, meaner form of goblin common in the Grey Mountains of the north. At the time the term was introduced in OD&D, 'half-orc' would have referred equally to a half-orc or a half-hobgoblin, and the term was simply preferential from the Tolkien text. Orcs and Goblins at some point shortly after the two-axis alignment system was introduced and D&D began to be its own thing with its own lore became rivals (much like the split between demons and devils) led by Gruumsh and Maglubiyet, and then orcs split off from the rest of goblin-kind into their own group. Orcs themselves didn't become a playable race until an early article in Dragon, which made goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds and xzarts playable races at exactly the same time. The name of the article was not, "Do you want to be an orc?" It was "Do you want to be a kobold?" I think that you are proving my point for me though by citing 'pop culture' references rather than the text of D&D as it was actually played. I'm also thinking that this could very much be something you perceive based on the era you are arrived in - OD&D, early AD&D and the classic modules, Forgotten Realms and 'Baldur's Gate' era, 3e, etc. [/QUOTE]
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