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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7447737" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Well this is certainly very "Dogs in the Vineyard-ish!"</p><p></p><p>I obviously agree with what Vincent is saying here. Victory/power/honor/survival, but at what price and all the way down to outright Pyrrhic Victories will answer questions about humanity or "who is this PC" or "what have they become?" Ultimately, the answer to those questions are much more profound and ultimately fulfilling than questions like "did I build this guy well enough and deploy his abilities well enough so that the fiction spits out 'best swordsman who ever lived' by the time we're done playing?" Those questions are fun and interesting, but they don't carry much emotional weight. The fires of real suspense burn in proportion to their means of ignition...and that ignition is emotional heft.</p><p></p><p>This is why games like Dogs, Burning Wheel, Sorcerer, My Life With Master, Apocalypse World, and Blades in the Dark are so meaty and visceral. The stakes are extremely high and the GMing ethos, PC build mechanics, resolution mechanics, reward cycles, and advancement schemes ensure that gain comes with cost...and oh will there be lots of cost...and with that cost change. The entire process is extremely suspenseful because no one has to force anything or bend anything to their will. You can merely play_the_game and this is assured to happen. So everyone (GM included) gets to be in on the suspense ride of how this all shakes out; who gets redeemed, who becomes irredeemable, and who ends up so broken that they care about neither.</p><p></p><p>Death isn't nearly as interesting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7447737, member: 6696971"] Well this is certainly very "Dogs in the Vineyard-ish!" I obviously agree with what Vincent is saying here. Victory/power/honor/survival, but at what price and all the way down to outright Pyrrhic Victories will answer questions about humanity or "who is this PC" or "what have they become?" Ultimately, the answer to those questions are much more profound and ultimately fulfilling than questions like "did I build this guy well enough and deploy his abilities well enough so that the fiction spits out 'best swordsman who ever lived' by the time we're done playing?" Those questions are fun and interesting, but they don't carry much emotional weight. The fires of real suspense burn in proportion to their means of ignition...and that ignition is emotional heft. This is why games like Dogs, Burning Wheel, Sorcerer, My Life With Master, Apocalypse World, and Blades in the Dark are so meaty and visceral. The stakes are extremely high and the GMing ethos, PC build mechanics, resolution mechanics, reward cycles, and advancement schemes ensure that gain comes with cost...and oh will there be lots of cost...and with that cost change. The entire process is extremely suspenseful because no one has to force anything or bend anything to their will. You can merely play_the_game and this is assured to happen. So everyone (GM included) gets to be in on the suspense ride of how this all shakes out; who gets redeemed, who becomes irredeemable, and who ends up so broken that they care about neither. Death isn't nearly as interesting. [/QUOTE]
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