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Swashbuckler/Bravo/Duelist Archetype
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 5982885" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>I don't know what they'll do, but I hope for the latter (emphasis mine).</p><p></p><p>I think the Rogue would fit better the general archetype of someone knows how to get along in various situations by using wit and savvyness to replace missing skills (or equipment). Either opening a door with tools when you don't have the key, or fighting dirty when you don't have the proficiency. I think a Swashbuckler should better be a Fighter derivation rather than a Rogue after all.</p><p></p><p>I guess that in the past 12 years combat has become such the centre of all the game that the Rogue general concept had to switch to focus on how he fights, and that somehow pulled the Swashbuckler half way between the two classes. The Rogue however needed a different staple way of fighting in order to provide some different gaming experience, hence the idea that it must "hit less but hurt more (sneak attack)" and further development of the 4e roles...</p><p></p><p>But now check for instance those famous characters you mentioned and ask yourself this question: do Zorro, D'artagnan, Wesley and Montoya really "hit less but hurt more"? I'm not an expert of their tales, but IMHO they hit a lot, practically they hit all the time they want. They also hurt, but not by fighting dirty... not by ambushing or backstabbing at least, they hurt because they are <em>precise</em> hence skilled. You can vary the interpretation of sneak attack to include also a general skill of knowing where it hurts, but why wouldn't the Fighter also know the same? Everyone who practices martial arts learn that kind of thing for instance, and so do policemen and soldiers for their jobs, and they are all <em>trained</em>. And it is that training to fight that for me fits more with the idea of a Fighter rather than a Rogue.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 5982885, member: 1465"] I don't know what they'll do, but I hope for the latter (emphasis mine). I think the Rogue would fit better the general archetype of someone knows how to get along in various situations by using wit and savvyness to replace missing skills (or equipment). Either opening a door with tools when you don't have the key, or fighting dirty when you don't have the proficiency. I think a Swashbuckler should better be a Fighter derivation rather than a Rogue after all. I guess that in the past 12 years combat has become such the centre of all the game that the Rogue general concept had to switch to focus on how he fights, and that somehow pulled the Swashbuckler half way between the two classes. The Rogue however needed a different staple way of fighting in order to provide some different gaming experience, hence the idea that it must "hit less but hurt more (sneak attack)" and further development of the 4e roles... But now check for instance those famous characters you mentioned and ask yourself this question: do Zorro, D'artagnan, Wesley and Montoya really "hit less but hurt more"? I'm not an expert of their tales, but IMHO they hit a lot, practically they hit all the time they want. They also hurt, but not by fighting dirty... not by ambushing or backstabbing at least, they hurt because they are [I]precise[/I] hence skilled. You can vary the interpretation of sneak attack to include also a general skill of knowing where it hurts, but why wouldn't the Fighter also know the same? Everyone who practices martial arts learn that kind of thing for instance, and so do policemen and soldiers for their jobs, and they are all [I]trained[/I]. And it is that training to fight that for me fits more with the idea of a Fighter rather than a Rogue. [/QUOTE]
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