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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9005240" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>Not <em>quite</em> to either & the thread as recent as <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/take-a-closer-look-at-the-2024-dungeon-master%E2%80%99s-guide.697232/post-9004449" target="_blank">454</a> & <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/take-a-closer-look-at-the-2024-dungeon-master%E2%80%99s-guide.697232/post-9004710" target="_blank">458</a> if not more recent has demonstrated the exact problem. Both RAW and plain reading of the text presented allow a player being challenged on bad assumptions or bad expectations don't need to justify or defend them to dismiss the challenge. All the player needs to do is say the GM is presenting something too extreme & isn't being reasonable or needs to make a better case for such an unbelievable problem. "I'm not making a case for anything, we all know the truth & here is what it is" type thing.</p><p></p><p><strong>A: </strong>It's an objective fact that steps 1-5 of the "chapter 1 step by step character creation" will result in a fully completed character before step6 for the first time in chapter 1 step by step character creation" mentions working with anyone or even admits the existence of the gm/other players.</p><p></p><p><strong>B: </strong>It's an objective fact that T<a href="https://twitter.com/JM13136849/status/1649635375730622464" target="_blank">coE139-141</a> where the session zero & related text are found is written towards the GM as the reader to the point that they switch from words like you & the DM to words like they/them & players when talking about player responsibilities. Perkins praised it in the video & mentioned it as an example of something to include in the new <strong>D</strong>MG</p><p></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p></p><p></p><p>In that session zero & related section the players are given virtually no responsibilities beyond "respect" the GM & "allow" the GM to do a couple things. They are not <em>encouraged</em> to take an active part in any of them, simply allow the GM to do it.</p><p></p><p>In any disagreement or sticking point caused by bad assumptions or bad expectations, even things like "well actually on page 5 &6 in the introduction it says <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/take-a-closer-look-at-the-2024-dungeon-master%E2%80%99s-guide.697232/post-8999869" target="_blank">some stuff</a> that applies to this" are subject to the same dismissals because both RAW & plain reading of the chargen & session zero stuff is very one sided in supporting <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/take-a-closer-look-at-the-2024-dungeon-master%E2%80%99s-guide.697232/post-9002558" target="_blank">why should MY character</a> "& "<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BUL9gfTJ2E&t=234s" target="_blank">why should I be railroaded into THAT setting?</a>" because A doesn't even mention anyone but ME & MY character in steps one through five while B simply says that the GM should get the character information from players <em>then</em> go make something.</p><p></p><p>The player doesn't need to put in even the slightest hint of effort to avoid crossing the line because the text has set such a low bar for the player & been pretty explicit in describing the GM as a passive sponge with no say in S0 or character creation before characters are fully created that was worthy enough to mention.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9005240, member: 93670"] Not [I]quite[/I] to either & the thread as recent as [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/take-a-closer-look-at-the-2024-dungeon-master%E2%80%99s-guide.697232/post-9004449']454[/URL] & [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/take-a-closer-look-at-the-2024-dungeon-master%E2%80%99s-guide.697232/post-9004710']458[/URL] if not more recent has demonstrated the exact problem. Both RAW and plain reading of the text presented allow a player being challenged on bad assumptions or bad expectations don't need to justify or defend them to dismiss the challenge. All the player needs to do is say the GM is presenting something too extreme & isn't being reasonable or needs to make a better case for such an unbelievable problem. "I'm not making a case for anything, we all know the truth & here is what it is" type thing. [B]A: [/B]It's an objective fact that steps 1-5 of the "chapter 1 step by step character creation" will result in a fully completed character before step6 for the first time in chapter 1 step by step character creation" mentions working with anyone or even admits the existence of the gm/other players. [B]B: [/B]It's an objective fact that T[URL='https://twitter.com/JM13136849/status/1649635375730622464']coE139-141[/URL] where the session zero & related text are found is written towards the GM as the reader to the point that they switch from words like you & the DM to words like they/them & players when talking about player responsibilities. Perkins praised it in the video & mentioned it as an example of something to include in the new [B]D[/B]MG [HR][/HR] In that session zero & related section the players are given virtually no responsibilities beyond "respect" the GM & "allow" the GM to do a couple things. They are not [I]encouraged[/I] to take an active part in any of them, simply allow the GM to do it. In any disagreement or sticking point caused by bad assumptions or bad expectations, even things like "well actually on page 5 &6 in the introduction it says [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/take-a-closer-look-at-the-2024-dungeon-master%E2%80%99s-guide.697232/post-8999869']some stuff[/URL] that applies to this" are subject to the same dismissals because both RAW & plain reading of the chargen & session zero stuff is very one sided in supporting [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/take-a-closer-look-at-the-2024-dungeon-master%E2%80%99s-guide.697232/post-9002558']why should MY character[/URL] "& "[URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BUL9gfTJ2E&t=234s']why should I be railroaded into THAT setting?[/URL]" because A doesn't even mention anyone but ME & MY character in steps one through five while B simply says that the GM should get the character information from players [I]then[/I] go make something. The player doesn't need to put in even the slightest hint of effort to avoid crossing the line because the text has set such a low bar for the player & been pretty explicit in describing the GM as a passive sponge with no say in S0 or character creation before characters are fully created that was worthy enough to mention. [/QUOTE]
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