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Teleport /fly /misty step the bane of cool dungeon design is RAW in 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="DeJoker" data-source="post: 7234307" data-attributes="member: 6907519"><p>[MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] and [MENTION=18674]Alex[/MENTION]empler -- Ever since 2nd Ed I have been using a magic systems that allowed all spell casters to be dynamic with their spells and I have not had a single issue with creating challenges for them. So this in and of its self does not make a show stopper, it just a measure of what kind of challenges you put in front of them. Some of my challenges have to do with following the right lead because if you pursue A then you cannot pursue B and weighing the pros and cons even if you used magic to know what they all were is not always that easy -- if you pursue A then these good and bad things might happen but if you pursue B then these other set of good and bad things can happen ... which do you pursue ... well most of the time they want to pursue both or even worse if there is more than just 2 options .... I had to remind my group once what their original mission was as they had totally forgot about it while dealing with all the other things they had found along the way. The challenge does not have to be physical in nature that is just limitation you place on yourself -- granted I created numerous physical challenges and if the players figure out a why to use their magic in a unique way to get around that obstacle more power to them but usually it was a challenge that you could not just throw a magic spell at to solve you had to figure out a way to use some magic in an unusual way to do something like that. Thus while they did end sometimes throwing magic at it as you say it was not like they pulled out their multi-tool and bang it was done.</p><p></p><p>Conversely I would have to ask what would you do if the genre was superheroes ?? They technically all have some kind of magic and some are extremely versatile with that magic and many of them can fly or use other means of strange forms of movement that normal people could never do. That genre is no different than this one in a general sense you have to deal with similar issues and such and you have a certain set of tools to do that with. So why limit yourself as a GM by limiting your players on what they can and cannot do -- if its fun for the players (which btw is what the main point of the game is to begin with) then let it be. I only put out restrictions based on certain game concepts that I have in mind but when I do that I almost always make an alternate path that allows them to do something that is pretty much the same thing but with a slightly different aesthetic veneer. To clarify that -- let us say for certain reason no one can fly without wings that is the concept -- so I create an alternate race(s) that have wings so that if someone wants to have the coolness of being able to fly they take one of those races or if they do not then they do not. And the list goes on and on... instead of pumping so much energy into figuring out how to say No to your players .... why not pump that energy into figuring out how to say yes to them instead.</p><p></p><p>I have had players in almost every game system outline something that by the straight up mechanics could not be done, but I had to agree with them as a player it could be fun -- and even if I did not necessarily agree with that I had to acknowledge it seems they would have fun with this and who am I to judge -- so I would within game balance sit down and figure out how I could say yes to them -- this often meant I had to tweak a class or a race or a something else in order to get what they wanted or something really close to what they wanted. Now before I seem like I toot my horn about how great I am -- I will say I may have just as many failures at this as I have had successes but most of the failures have been with unreasonable expectations of the player and their (imo) inability to see past the surface of things. I was running a game where I stated upfront that I had only 2 magic paradigms and if you wanted to play a class with one of those other paradigms that I would figure out how to slide it into one of the 2 existing ones but I had players that simply wanted that to add that 3rd paradigm regardless of what I did to create the basic concept of what they said they wanted to play. So you win some and you lose some but for the most part I generally do not have to say no to my players all that often because frankly most of the things they can do I can just as easily counter by doing something else and do it in a manner that is not just nerfing it -- aka putting up an anti-magic field to shut down magic is IMO a lame way to go about stopping the magic solution, not saying it cannot be used under specific circumstances but I have heard of DMs doing it for almost all the situations. Why give them a bit of coolness unless you are going to let them be cool with it?</p><p></p><p>*coughs and steps down off of soap box* Sorry I sometimes get a bit carried away with that subject.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DeJoker, post: 7234307, member: 6907519"] [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] and [MENTION=18674]Alex[/MENTION]empler -- Ever since 2nd Ed I have been using a magic systems that allowed all spell casters to be dynamic with their spells and I have not had a single issue with creating challenges for them. So this in and of its self does not make a show stopper, it just a measure of what kind of challenges you put in front of them. Some of my challenges have to do with following the right lead because if you pursue A then you cannot pursue B and weighing the pros and cons even if you used magic to know what they all were is not always that easy -- if you pursue A then these good and bad things might happen but if you pursue B then these other set of good and bad things can happen ... which do you pursue ... well most of the time they want to pursue both or even worse if there is more than just 2 options .... I had to remind my group once what their original mission was as they had totally forgot about it while dealing with all the other things they had found along the way. The challenge does not have to be physical in nature that is just limitation you place on yourself -- granted I created numerous physical challenges and if the players figure out a why to use their magic in a unique way to get around that obstacle more power to them but usually it was a challenge that you could not just throw a magic spell at to solve you had to figure out a way to use some magic in an unusual way to do something like that. Thus while they did end sometimes throwing magic at it as you say it was not like they pulled out their multi-tool and bang it was done. Conversely I would have to ask what would you do if the genre was superheroes ?? They technically all have some kind of magic and some are extremely versatile with that magic and many of them can fly or use other means of strange forms of movement that normal people could never do. That genre is no different than this one in a general sense you have to deal with similar issues and such and you have a certain set of tools to do that with. So why limit yourself as a GM by limiting your players on what they can and cannot do -- if its fun for the players (which btw is what the main point of the game is to begin with) then let it be. I only put out restrictions based on certain game concepts that I have in mind but when I do that I almost always make an alternate path that allows them to do something that is pretty much the same thing but with a slightly different aesthetic veneer. To clarify that -- let us say for certain reason no one can fly without wings that is the concept -- so I create an alternate race(s) that have wings so that if someone wants to have the coolness of being able to fly they take one of those races or if they do not then they do not. And the list goes on and on... instead of pumping so much energy into figuring out how to say No to your players .... why not pump that energy into figuring out how to say yes to them instead. I have had players in almost every game system outline something that by the straight up mechanics could not be done, but I had to agree with them as a player it could be fun -- and even if I did not necessarily agree with that I had to acknowledge it seems they would have fun with this and who am I to judge -- so I would within game balance sit down and figure out how I could say yes to them -- this often meant I had to tweak a class or a race or a something else in order to get what they wanted or something really close to what they wanted. Now before I seem like I toot my horn about how great I am -- I will say I may have just as many failures at this as I have had successes but most of the failures have been with unreasonable expectations of the player and their (imo) inability to see past the surface of things. I was running a game where I stated upfront that I had only 2 magic paradigms and if you wanted to play a class with one of those other paradigms that I would figure out how to slide it into one of the 2 existing ones but I had players that simply wanted that to add that 3rd paradigm regardless of what I did to create the basic concept of what they said they wanted to play. So you win some and you lose some but for the most part I generally do not have to say no to my players all that often because frankly most of the things they can do I can just as easily counter by doing something else and do it in a manner that is not just nerfing it -- aka putting up an anti-magic field to shut down magic is IMO a lame way to go about stopping the magic solution, not saying it cannot be used under specific circumstances but I have heard of DMs doing it for almost all the situations. Why give them a bit of coolness unless you are going to let them be cool with it? *coughs and steps down off of soap box* Sorry I sometimes get a bit carried away with that subject. [/QUOTE]
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