Templates and Advancement

[Verequus]

Templates, which change the type, don't change the original BAB, saves or skill points. That is simple. But when do the features of the new type eventually apply? If you add classes (dependent on Int)? If you add new hit dice?

Suppose a 7 HD creature, on which a template is applied upon. Now advance it to 10 HD. How are the new 3 HD treated? As if the creature was advanced to 10 HD and then templated, or as if the last 3 HD are treated with the rules of the new type?

 

[Pinotage]

Templates, which change the type, don't change the original BAB, saves or skill points. That is simple. But when do the features of the new type eventually apply? If you add classes (dependent on Int)? If you add new hit dice?

Suppose a 7 HD creature, on which a template is applied upon. Now advance it to 10 HD. How are the new 3 HD treated? As if the creature was advanced to 10 HD and then templated, or as if the last 3 HD are treated with the rules of the new type?

I think the standard way of doing it is to always apply the template last. Advance the creature, add class level, then add the template. It's easier, less confusing, and there are rules for doing. I don't think the other way around is supported, but I suppose you could wangle something.

Pinotage

 

[Verequus]

I think the standard way of doing it is to always apply the template last. Advance the creature, add class level, then add the template. It's easier, less confusing, and there are rules for doing. I don't think the other way around is supported, but I suppose you could wangle something.

I don't believe, that the template has always to be added last. One poster mentioned the application of templates for the creation of new races - after giving a new name and removing the base creature entirely no one knows the origin. But then you can't simply remove the template, if you want to add class levels or some extra hit dice. But I'd like to hear an official ruling, if something like that exists.

 

[Pinotage]

I don't believe, that the template has always to be added last. One poster mentioned the application of templates for the creation of new races - after giving a new name and removing the base creature entirely no one knows the origin. But then you can't simply remove the template, if you want to add class levels or some extra hit dice. But I'd like to hear an official ruling, if something like that exists.

But in that case you're starting with a completely new creature to begin with, whose BAB, saves, etc. depend on the type it has. So you handly it just like any other monster. It's when a template changes type and the earlier BAB, saves, etc. depend on the base creature not the template where it becomes tricky. There's nothing stopping you from having a 7 HD templated creature and then advancing it by 3 HD according to its type, of course. I think most templates are added later but it's not a prerequisite.

Pinotage

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Here's the thing - a creature that advances by hit dice is generally not "leveling up."

He's actually just a bigger, tougher, whatever, version of the normal-sized creature.

There's some creatures for which hit dice advancement actually represent "leveling up" - like dragons - which really just serves to muddy the waters.

So, when you're advancing a creature and adding a template, you need to decide whether, in your particular case, the creature is leveling up or not. If he isn't, then apply the template last. If he is, then apply the template first.

 

[glass]

Templates, which change the type, don't change the original BAB, saves or skill points.

Templates which change the type do change all those things, unless they say otherwise. Those that do specify otherwise give you the Augmented subtype, which indicates the old type features.

If you then add HD, you still have the Augmented subtype, so you are still adding HD of the old type (with the old bab, skills, etc).

At least, I think that's how it works...


glass.

PS Templates never affect class HD unless they specifically say they do.