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<blockquote data-quote="malkav666" data-source="post: 5777172" data-attributes="member: 70565"><p>I am not really sure what would be good for the 5e wizard class. I know I really like how 3e/PF handle casters, but even though its my preferred method of dealing with magic (out of the D&D flavors) even I must admit that if a player wants to, they can abuse the system and have better options than others. My first gut instinct in this case is to assume an adversarial relationship between the DM and the offending mage or perhaps a similar status between the other players and the caster. Or perhaps a game pace that allows the caster the regain their resources at such a quick rate that they never really have to deal with the power balancing aspect of Vancian casting (ie. the 15 minute work day). But that is just based on my own groups. I know there are many different folks who game and do so in different environments than my own group. </p><p></p><p>So while Vancian works just fine for my group, even we have problems every so often with a caster being too good, but TBH we sometimes run into the same scenario with other class/item/power combos that have nothing to do with casters. We just handle balance issues on a case by case basis, and usually if the group has a good relationship with one another it can be settled by pulling the player aside and letting them know that while they have designed a baddass combo that really works, could they please not use it EVERY scene, to add some more enjoyment to the session across the group. I usually don't even have to adjust the rules or take away/nerf the ability/combo. Its kind of fun to be a badass. And some of my players really enjoy pouring over rules looking for new ways to do just that. As long as everyone realizes we are playing a game TOGETHER and everybody in the group is given access to that "I am a badass" feeling then it all works out for us.</p><p></p><p>I do not mind 4e wizards. I don't think the AEDU system is perfect but it could of worked for me. My main gripe about 4e Wizards is really about the AEDU system itself. Its not a bad system, and I definitely could envision a good class designed on that principle. But all of the classes in 4e used it and they all seemed a bit too similar in scope to really be different classes to me. This made me feel like I was playing one class regardless of which one I chose. In the end it is this idea that drove my group away from 4e more than any other. There was a strong consensus in my gaming circles that class choice did not really matter. And when we played different classes they played so similarly to other classes that the choice had less reward than in previous iterations of the game.</p><p></p><p>I guess my main wish for the 5e wizard is for it to feel different. I think there is more room in the class design for other systems aside from AEDU. I would like to play a Wizard that feels very different then playing a fighter and to be able to make different developmental choices when playing one. But I guess this applies to other classes as well. I would like thief characters to feel different than fighters as well for example.</p><p></p><p>But as far as Vancian vs ADEU for wizard? I don't really care as long as multiple play styles can easily be supported by whatever they choose, and that when I play another class, that creating the toon and managing its resources aren't so similar that they feel the same. I am willing to take a look at whatever they design with an open mind as far as the framework. I just want more variety in class design, and for it to be fun.</p><p></p><p>But those are just my own wishes, it should not be read as an argument trying to prove my views. I know what works for me and my groups. It was posted in the hopes that if the designers are in fact reading these threads that I could weigh in with them.</p><p></p><p>love,</p><p></p><p>malkav</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="malkav666, post: 5777172, member: 70565"] I am not really sure what would be good for the 5e wizard class. I know I really like how 3e/PF handle casters, but even though its my preferred method of dealing with magic (out of the D&D flavors) even I must admit that if a player wants to, they can abuse the system and have better options than others. My first gut instinct in this case is to assume an adversarial relationship between the DM and the offending mage or perhaps a similar status between the other players and the caster. Or perhaps a game pace that allows the caster the regain their resources at such a quick rate that they never really have to deal with the power balancing aspect of Vancian casting (ie. the 15 minute work day). But that is just based on my own groups. I know there are many different folks who game and do so in different environments than my own group. So while Vancian works just fine for my group, even we have problems every so often with a caster being too good, but TBH we sometimes run into the same scenario with other class/item/power combos that have nothing to do with casters. We just handle balance issues on a case by case basis, and usually if the group has a good relationship with one another it can be settled by pulling the player aside and letting them know that while they have designed a baddass combo that really works, could they please not use it EVERY scene, to add some more enjoyment to the session across the group. I usually don't even have to adjust the rules or take away/nerf the ability/combo. Its kind of fun to be a badass. And some of my players really enjoy pouring over rules looking for new ways to do just that. As long as everyone realizes we are playing a game TOGETHER and everybody in the group is given access to that "I am a badass" feeling then it all works out for us. I do not mind 4e wizards. I don't think the AEDU system is perfect but it could of worked for me. My main gripe about 4e Wizards is really about the AEDU system itself. Its not a bad system, and I definitely could envision a good class designed on that principle. But all of the classes in 4e used it and they all seemed a bit too similar in scope to really be different classes to me. This made me feel like I was playing one class regardless of which one I chose. In the end it is this idea that drove my group away from 4e more than any other. There was a strong consensus in my gaming circles that class choice did not really matter. And when we played different classes they played so similarly to other classes that the choice had less reward than in previous iterations of the game. I guess my main wish for the 5e wizard is for it to feel different. I think there is more room in the class design for other systems aside from AEDU. I would like to play a Wizard that feels very different then playing a fighter and to be able to make different developmental choices when playing one. But I guess this applies to other classes as well. I would like thief characters to feel different than fighters as well for example. But as far as Vancian vs ADEU for wizard? I don't really care as long as multiple play styles can easily be supported by whatever they choose, and that when I play another class, that creating the toon and managing its resources aren't so similar that they feel the same. I am willing to take a look at whatever they design with an open mind as far as the framework. I just want more variety in class design, and for it to be fun. But those are just my own wishes, it should not be read as an argument trying to prove my views. I know what works for me and my groups. It was posted in the hopes that if the designers are in fact reading these threads that I could weigh in with them. love, malkav [/QUOTE]
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