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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
The Best Thing from 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6560464" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm another "other" - and I clicked it before realising I could make multiple choices!</p><p></p><p>My "other" is inspired by the session I ran yesterday, where the PCs: (i) fought off a corrupted angel (Discord Incarnate) and then defeated a still-born godling created around a shard of the Rod of Seven Parts that resulted from the slaying of Miska the Wolf-Spider; (ii) took control of a portal to the Abyss; (iii) rode their Thundercloud Tower into and through the Demonweb Pits to directly confront Lolth.</p><p></p><p>The "best thing" here is the support the game gives for the full spectrum of D&D play, from saving villagers from goblins at low levels, to taking the fight to the gods and the Abyss at epic levels.</p><p></p><p>If I had to choose 3 from the list, they would be (in no particular order):</p><p></p><p>* skill challenges;</p><p></p><p>* consistent/transparent maths;</p><p></p><p>* encounter/daily structure for all classes;</p><p></p><p>* and as a lucky 4th, NPS and monsters that are simplified in presentation but that <em>play</em> better than in any other version of D&D (and better than most other fantasy RPGs I've played).</p><p></p><p>I agree that the MM3 damage fix for NPCs/monsters was needed.</p><p></p><p>But I don't agree with the rest of this. My game doesn't use Expertise feats and the PCs have no trouble hitting, including in a session yesterday when 28th level PCs (without Expertise) successfully inflicted 700 hp of damage on Lolth (AC 51, lowest defence Fort 46) in one round.</p><p></p><p>While magic item bonuses (or the inherent bonus alternative) are necessary (but not item bonuses to damage - the fighter in my game doesn't have any, and is plenty effective), I haven't found that that has reduced the feel of magic items in my game.</p><p></p><p>I've used more artefacts in 4e than in any other D&D-style game I've run - the Rod of Seven Parts, Whelm/Overwhelm, the Eye of Vecna, the Crystal of the Ebon Flame, the Sword of Kas. The clear maths and power system of the game has made these artefacts usable in play rather than the game-breakers of yore. And many items - not just these ones, but the Corellon-worshipper's power jewel ("Jewel of Corellon"), the tieflling paladin's khopesh of bonus damage vs bloodied enemies, and others - have been core elements in PCs' identities, which for me is the classic role of magic items in D&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6560464, member: 42582"] I'm another "other" - and I clicked it before realising I could make multiple choices! My "other" is inspired by the session I ran yesterday, where the PCs: (i) fought off a corrupted angel (Discord Incarnate) and then defeated a still-born godling created around a shard of the Rod of Seven Parts that resulted from the slaying of Miska the Wolf-Spider; (ii) took control of a portal to the Abyss; (iii) rode their Thundercloud Tower into and through the Demonweb Pits to directly confront Lolth. The "best thing" here is the support the game gives for the full spectrum of D&D play, from saving villagers from goblins at low levels, to taking the fight to the gods and the Abyss at epic levels. If I had to choose 3 from the list, they would be (in no particular order): * skill challenges; * consistent/transparent maths; * encounter/daily structure for all classes; * and as a lucky 4th, NPS and monsters that are simplified in presentation but that [I]play[/I] better than in any other version of D&D (and better than most other fantasy RPGs I've played). I agree that the MM3 damage fix for NPCs/monsters was needed. But I don't agree with the rest of this. My game doesn't use Expertise feats and the PCs have no trouble hitting, including in a session yesterday when 28th level PCs (without Expertise) successfully inflicted 700 hp of damage on Lolth (AC 51, lowest defence Fort 46) in one round. While magic item bonuses (or the inherent bonus alternative) are necessary (but not item bonuses to damage - the fighter in my game doesn't have any, and is plenty effective), I haven't found that that has reduced the feel of magic items in my game. I've used more artefacts in 4e than in any other D&D-style game I've run - the Rod of Seven Parts, Whelm/Overwhelm, the Eye of Vecna, the Crystal of the Ebon Flame, the Sword of Kas. The clear maths and power system of the game has made these artefacts usable in play rather than the game-breakers of yore. And many items - not just these ones, but the Corellon-worshipper's power jewel ("Jewel of Corellon"), the tieflling paladin's khopesh of bonus damage vs bloodied enemies, and others - have been core elements in PCs' identities, which for me is the classic role of magic items in D&D. [/QUOTE]
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