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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6565869" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>In what game is this not true? I mean its simply not plausible to me that your RPG spells out a formula for each skill that literally deterministically states for all situations when and how that skill is useful, what the DC is, and what the results of use/failure are going to be. I can imagine you have covered the most basic common cases of skill uses that probably DO cover 80% of skill checks, but so does every other game. When the rogue asks what the DC is going to be for leaping off the balcony onto the top of the flaming balloon, riding it to the ceiling and leaping to the ledge, you can't possibly pull that off a chart. Presumably in 4e someone is going to say its a hard stunt of DC N, and make an Acrobatics check. I think that's about as transparent/empowering as you can get, isn't it?</p><p></p><p></p><p>In my opinion when people talk about 'empowerment' they are saying "the players have clear rules and guidelines they can use to decide if they can do this thing or not", which is empowering because it removes the doubt and makes explicit the risks and rewards inherent in an action. The rules don't empower players by giving them more options, they just make the options work better for them. They may also sometimes mean mechanisms that increase the facility with which players interact with the game in other similar ways. The 'moves' of DW can be said to be empowering simply for the way they clearly delineate how you interact with the world. Any player can be sure they are 'doing it right' by using those moves.</p><p></p><p>I think transparency is a major type of empowerment, not the only one by any means.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It depends on what levels your PCs are. At level 1 a PC with a 10 in a stat will have a 0 bonus, without training. They can hit a hard level 1 DC on a 19. This is pretty hard, but its not impossible. The same character with a 14 stat and one of the many +2 static skill bonuses granted by races, feats, some classes, etc succeeds on a 15, they can perform this hard task with a bit of luck. In any case, I don't know why everyone should have to be able to do everything. Clearly at level 30 a character with a 10 in a stat (started with an 8) and no bonuses of any kind can't even do an easy task without a 19, but its a demi-god level task, and they won't pass a medium skill check ever. I don't think this is disempowering at all, its just very clear, you have to invest in your skills, to be able to do the really hard stuff.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6565869, member: 82106"] In what game is this not true? I mean its simply not plausible to me that your RPG spells out a formula for each skill that literally deterministically states for all situations when and how that skill is useful, what the DC is, and what the results of use/failure are going to be. I can imagine you have covered the most basic common cases of skill uses that probably DO cover 80% of skill checks, but so does every other game. When the rogue asks what the DC is going to be for leaping off the balcony onto the top of the flaming balloon, riding it to the ceiling and leaping to the ledge, you can't possibly pull that off a chart. Presumably in 4e someone is going to say its a hard stunt of DC N, and make an Acrobatics check. I think that's about as transparent/empowering as you can get, isn't it? In my opinion when people talk about 'empowerment' they are saying "the players have clear rules and guidelines they can use to decide if they can do this thing or not", which is empowering because it removes the doubt and makes explicit the risks and rewards inherent in an action. The rules don't empower players by giving them more options, they just make the options work better for them. They may also sometimes mean mechanisms that increase the facility with which players interact with the game in other similar ways. The 'moves' of DW can be said to be empowering simply for the way they clearly delineate how you interact with the world. Any player can be sure they are 'doing it right' by using those moves. I think transparency is a major type of empowerment, not the only one by any means. It depends on what levels your PCs are. At level 1 a PC with a 10 in a stat will have a 0 bonus, without training. They can hit a hard level 1 DC on a 19. This is pretty hard, but its not impossible. The same character with a 14 stat and one of the many +2 static skill bonuses granted by races, feats, some classes, etc succeeds on a 15, they can perform this hard task with a bit of luck. In any case, I don't know why everyone should have to be able to do everything. Clearly at level 30 a character with a 10 in a stat (started with an 8) and no bonuses of any kind can't even do an easy task without a 19, but its a demi-god level task, and they won't pass a medium skill check ever. I don't think this is disempowering at all, its just very clear, you have to invest in your skills, to be able to do the really hard stuff. [/QUOTE]
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