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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 6565924" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>That's just the premise, though. You can't really question the premise, or else you wouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you're playing a Supers game, then you've already agreed that you're playing in a world where super-powers are a thing. If you're playing D&D, then you must be playing in a world that is conducive to that ruleset, or else why would you be playing this game?</p><p></p><p>It's a matter of narrative focus, which is a matter wholly external to the game.</p><p></p><p>Let's say that there are a dozen times, throughout the centuries, where the megadungeon is discovered and explored by <em>someone</em>; nobody else ever finds the place. The PCs could exist at any geographic and temporal coordinates within the setting, but they don't appear near the dungeon <em>because</em> they're PCs. They're PCs <em>because</em> we're paying attention to them, <em>because</em> they are in the right time and place for something interesting to happen.</p><p></p><p>That part doesn't make sense to me. The DM should be neutral. The DM shouldn't be making your choices irrelevant. At least, that was the takeaway I got from 2E. I guess that would be pretty hard, if I didn't trust my DM to be honest, but there's also no real motivation for the DM to cheat, either. It's not the DM's place to try and shape the narrative.</p><p></p><p>I think I'm missing something here.</p><p></p><p>That particular example seemed really weird to me. I can't imagine a player <em>not knowing</em> if they have rope or not. And if you have rope, then the DM's job is to arbitrate the outcome, and everyone expects that result to be fair. </p><p></p><p>I guess if you're not tracking gear in any way, but that's not a playstyle with which I have any experience. I mean, it seems like it would run into exactly this sort of issue, more often than not. (Or if the PCs get captured, or someone gets into their equipment and sabotages it, how can you fairly determine what happened to the rope if you haven't even established whether the rope even exists? Do the PCs only have rope if they end up needing it, later? If they think of the rope thing for the second wall they need to climb, but not the first, do they retroactively realize that they were foolish because they must have had that rope the whole time?)</p><p></p><p>I guess that's one way of putting it. The choices of the PCs should matter, and since the players are the ones making those choices (on behalf of the PCs), then players are kind of like co-authors in the narrative.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 6565924, member: 6775031"] That's just the premise, though. You can't really question the premise, or else you wouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you're playing a Supers game, then you've already agreed that you're playing in a world where super-powers are a thing. If you're playing D&D, then you must be playing in a world that is conducive to that ruleset, or else why would you be playing this game? It's a matter of narrative focus, which is a matter wholly external to the game. Let's say that there are a dozen times, throughout the centuries, where the megadungeon is discovered and explored by [I]someone[/I]; nobody else ever finds the place. The PCs could exist at any geographic and temporal coordinates within the setting, but they don't appear near the dungeon [I]because[/I] they're PCs. They're PCs [I]because[/I] we're paying attention to them, [I]because[/I] they are in the right time and place for something interesting to happen. That part doesn't make sense to me. The DM should be neutral. The DM shouldn't be making your choices irrelevant. At least, that was the takeaway I got from 2E. I guess that would be pretty hard, if I didn't trust my DM to be honest, but there's also no real motivation for the DM to cheat, either. It's not the DM's place to try and shape the narrative. I think I'm missing something here. That particular example seemed really weird to me. I can't imagine a player [I]not knowing[/I] if they have rope or not. And if you have rope, then the DM's job is to arbitrate the outcome, and everyone expects that result to be fair. I guess if you're not tracking gear in any way, but that's not a playstyle with which I have any experience. I mean, it seems like it would run into exactly this sort of issue, more often than not. (Or if the PCs get captured, or someone gets into their equipment and sabotages it, how can you fairly determine what happened to the rope if you haven't even established whether the rope even exists? Do the PCs only have rope if they end up needing it, later? If they think of the rope thing for the second wall they need to climb, but not the first, do they retroactively realize that they were foolish because they must have had that rope the whole time?) I guess that's one way of putting it. The choices of the PCs should matter, and since the players are the ones making those choices (on behalf of the PCs), then players are kind of like co-authors in the narrative. [/QUOTE]
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