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<blockquote data-quote="TheFindus" data-source="post: 6594445" data-attributes="member: 75791"><p>Why is this bouncyness necessary for the PCs to ride in to save the day?</p><p>To make the flow of the story more plausible? What I (and I think [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] and others also) are saying is that if this one result is plausible why should the DM not simply decide it to happen without rolling the dice? The result does not become more plausible through the use of dice. The decision by the DM, however, is based on the need and story-intent the players have conveyed. Now, this does not mean that bad dice results on the players part or bad decision making will not lead to unwelcomed end results. But the power here lies with the players/PCs and is not decided by the DM rolling on a random table, turning the end result into a completely random element.</p><p>Turning the DM into some sort of console for the player's game (much like a Nintendo) by rolling the dice does not add anything here, in my opinion. From the actual play examples in this thread I get the impression that the opposite could be true.</p><p>The players want to be detectives, but NPCs do the work for them. They want to engage the NPCs in the post apocalyptic Western (which sounds really cool, to be honest), but are not part of the shootout. Instead, to me the DM seems to be playing his own game, rolling the dice on some table he needed to come up with in order to not seem as a participant in the construction of the story everybody came to develop and experience together to begin with.</p><p>No, as a player, I want story based on what my PC can and cannot do. I think the DM has a right to know where my interests are - and the other way around. And I want that story now, not based on some random table. 4E can deliver this through character choices (themes, paragon paths, epic destinies and powers), skill challenges, advice in the DMGs and the ability to refluff stuff very easily. This is its feature.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheFindus, post: 6594445, member: 75791"] Why is this bouncyness necessary for the PCs to ride in to save the day? To make the flow of the story more plausible? What I (and I think [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] and others also) are saying is that if this one result is plausible why should the DM not simply decide it to happen without rolling the dice? The result does not become more plausible through the use of dice. The decision by the DM, however, is based on the need and story-intent the players have conveyed. Now, this does not mean that bad dice results on the players part or bad decision making will not lead to unwelcomed end results. But the power here lies with the players/PCs and is not decided by the DM rolling on a random table, turning the end result into a completely random element. Turning the DM into some sort of console for the player's game (much like a Nintendo) by rolling the dice does not add anything here, in my opinion. From the actual play examples in this thread I get the impression that the opposite could be true. The players want to be detectives, but NPCs do the work for them. They want to engage the NPCs in the post apocalyptic Western (which sounds really cool, to be honest), but are not part of the shootout. Instead, to me the DM seems to be playing his own game, rolling the dice on some table he needed to come up with in order to not seem as a participant in the construction of the story everybody came to develop and experience together to begin with. No, as a player, I want story based on what my PC can and cannot do. I think the DM has a right to know where my interests are - and the other way around. And I want that story now, not based on some random table. 4E can deliver this through character choices (themes, paragon paths, epic destinies and powers), skill challenges, advice in the DMGs and the ability to refluff stuff very easily. This is its feature. [/QUOTE]
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