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The Book of Five Traditions: A 4e Monk Handbook
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<blockquote data-quote="MwaO" data-source="post: 6703361" data-attributes="member: 12749"><p><strong>Multiclassing & Hybriding</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Multiclassing</strong></p><p>Monks definitely need to consider multiclassing and/or hybriding. They lose very, very little from hybriding except the ability to use non-Monk powers to power Blurred Ki Focus. The big problem for Monks is that they don't get any minor, single target multi-attack or immediate action attack options and it is debatable whether or not they have some move action attacks - even if they do, it helps to have standard action attacks from elsewhere. The good MCs</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Assassin</strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #800080">Shadow Initiate</span> </strong>- Rogue is almost strictly better unless your DM believes that Claw Gloves interact somehow with Shrouds. Expect Table Variation.</p><p><span style="color: #800080"><strong>Novice Power</strong></span> - Flurry of Talons. Again, Expect Table Variation. What does 3 attack rolls that one resolves as a single hit even mean? If you get a <em>very</em> favorable ruling from your DM, go to town.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Avenger</strong></p><p><strong>Discipline of Divine Wrath</strong> (req wis 13) (PHB2)- Skill training in religion, access to the avenger's striker mechanic for two turns, and holy symbol training. Too bad that the aveger's striker mechanic works poorly for close burst specialists like the monk. However, it can help you score on a nice melee daily power. The basic problem here is that there really isn't a tradition wow'd by this. Soulforge Hammering might attract a Centered Breath Monk, but Soulforge's real value is in assuming your target will survive until the next turn and that it is worth a standard + minor to do 2-1w+stat attacks.</p><p><strong>Novice Power:</strong> Fury's Advance. Only for Centered Breath Monks</p><p></p><p><strong>Cleric</strong></p><p>Cleric is a nice choice for the holy symbol proficiency, decent paragon paths, and some nice healing power swaps. Wisdom 13 is relatively easy to qualify for as well. </p><p><strong>Divine Channeler</strong> (req wis 13 and religion trained) (CD) - Healer's Mercy is a nice power to have when things go horribly wrong. </p><p><strong><span style="color: #0000FF">Initiate of the Faith</span> </strong>(req wis 13) (PHB) - Training in religion, a heal once per day, and holy symbol profeciency is nice for a feat.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter</strong></p><p>Fighter is a common MC for monks due to some feats, like Polearm Momentum and Slashing Storm. Small races, like halflings, also can gain a lot from Small Warrior's Defense. Some fighter stances, like Dancing Defense also may be worth a power swap. If your DM goes for move-based Monk powers getting an attack, Fighter jumps to <strong><span style="color: #00CCFF">Sky Blue</span></strong>.</p><p><strong>Battle Awareness</strong> (req13 Str, 13 Wis) (MP)- If you have Melee training or a good strength, then you will get good use out of the free melee basic each encounter. However, the stat requirements suck for everyone but polearm users.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #0000FF">Cyclone Warrior</span> </strong>(MP2)- A scaling bonus to all damage rolls for a turn each encounter could be useful.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #800080">Wrathful Warrior</span> </strong>(<strong><span style="color: #0000FF">Iron Soul</span></strong>, req 13 Con) (MP2) Temp hp and a skill</p><p></p><p><strong>Power Swaps:</strong> Rain of Blows, Come And Get It</p><p><strong>Paragon Paths:</strong> Shock Trooper</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Invoker</strong></p><p>Invoker is a decent choice for a monk looking to pick up staff profeciency (to use it one-handed). </p><p><strong>Acoltye of the Divine Secrets</strong> (re wis 13) (PHB2)- Training in religion, an invoker at will(aka Hand of Radiance), and staff implements.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Paladin</strong></p><p>Paladin is an okay choice for monks who want to play defender, or pick up some save granting powers. Holy symbol proficiency is also very nice. There's a small catch-22 with Desert Wind and Divine Challenge/Sanction - penalty to hit you, penalty to hit your allies.</p><p></p><p><strong>Divine Channeler </strong>(req wis 13 and religion trained) (CD) - Divine Mettle is a nice get. </p><p><strong>Soldier of the Faith </strong>(req str 13 and cha 13) (PHB) - difficult stat requirements, but a mark once per encounter might be worth it for monks wanting to play defender. </p><p><strong>Soldier of Virtue </strong>(req wis 15) (CD)- Any 1 skill, remove one effect as a minor action is nice, plus you get holy symbol prof. Can't complain.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Ranger</strong></p><p>Ranger is good primarily because there are some triple-hitter ranged attack powers that could fit in well.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Rogue</strong></p><p>Rogues have a few feats, like Surprising Charge, that could be used by some monks. On the plus side, rogues powers all use dex and MC feats are easy to qualify for. Feat swaps will be looking for Minor Action attacks, such as Low Slash, Snap Shot, or Tumbling Strike. Or a massive multi-attack power such as Path of the Blade, which quite frankly is really nasty with a blurred ki focus Centered Breath Monk, low charisma and all. If you're going for the Paragon Path Unseen Hand, this is mandatory for Two-Fisted Shooter. This is Sky Blue because you're picking up an attack power to use.</p><p></p><p><strong>Sneak of Shadows</strong>- Sneak attack once per encounter could be useful.</p><p><strong>Twilight Adept</strong>- Once per turn you can hide with only concealment/cover and not take stealth penalties for movement. </p><p></p><p><strong>Sorcerer</strong> Mostly here for Desert Flurry monks, but whoa, a Monk with Flame Spiral+Demonskin Adept Paragon Path is a power house build.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Swordmage</strong></p><p>This is mostly just for Eladrin, due to Eladrin Swordmage Advance and Borrowed Confidence.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Warlock</strong></p><p>Some warlock paragon paths could be fun, and some power swaps also could be useful, like Ethereal Stride. </p><p><strong>Binding Initiate</strong> (phb) - Rod and Wand profeciency, and the ability to turn invisible once per encounter after killing something. If you're an optimized monk and have just surprised the living daylights out of your DM, this may be something you want to do.</p><p></p><p>---------</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Hybriding</strong></p><p><span style="color: #000000">In general, Monk doesn't lose a whole lot by hybriding other than the ability to poach minor action or multi- attacks from other classes and then use them with Flurry of Blows. So if you pick up something better and weren't planning to use a Blurred Ki Focus anyway, but rather Elemental Damage, there you go. There are still some options to use a Blurred Ki Focus with the hybrids - just take multi-attack Monk powers, but it can be more difficult or stat-intensive. The one difficult part is that WotC hasn't updated(and almost certainly will not) the builder to understand that Eternal Tide, Desert Wind, and Iron Soul are legal options to be picked. Which means leaving the tradition black and in the power menu, adding a custom power - then just pick the correct FoB. The other ability isn't usually particularly relevant as you ought to spend your Hybrid Talent feat to either get Armor from your other side or Monk Unarmored Defense</span> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="color: #00CCFF"><strong>Fighter</strong></span> - Rain of Blows, opens up Polearm Momentum without spending the MC feat, great AC via hybrid talent, a couple of really good paragon paths, synergizes well with Eternal Tide. V-stat issues which Rain of Steel partially gets rid of, don't plan to mark past 3 rounds, though(Rain of Blows, Kirre's Roar, Come And Get It). Could potentially MC into Bard for Daring Blade for a Blistering Flourish+Rain of Blows set up where you dump Str.</span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="color: #00CCFF"><strong>Ran<span style="color: #0000FF">ger</span></strong></span> - Single stat, Archer Ranger means use bow as implement, bracers of archery, twin strike, disruptive strike while having monk close burst options as alternative. Str has minor action attacks, but V-stat not as helpful compared to Rogue. Basically, you're a Monk who has good damage bonuses and has Twin Strike.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="color: #00CCFF"><strong>Rogue</strong></span> - Single stat, minor action attacks galore. Hybrid talent opens up unusual +1 to hit with daggers or crossbows. You're a Monk who uses Low Slash and Tumbling Strike with a little extra accuracy. Another advantage is that you can still MC into Fighter for Polearm Momentum, MC into Assassin for the paragon cover feat to join the ranks of the hidden, or into a Divine Class for Holy Symbol and Symbol of Victory.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF"><strong>Barbarian</strong></span> - similar to Fighter, but the V-stat is a bit more painful due to Storm of Blows issue.</p><p><span style="color: #0000FF"><strong>Battlemind </strong></span>- Synergy between Iron Soul's ability to prevent a shift and Battlemind's immediates. Great AC via feat. Get a decent MBA and force targets to consider taking an MBA or Forceful Reversal. Add in Soaring Blade for +Con fire damage to melee attacks, get a Firewind Blade, and Brutal Barrage.</p><p> <span style="color: #0000FF"><strong>Cleric</strong></span> - good AC, minor action attack from Paragon of Victory Paragon Path, get Holy Symbol. Has V-stat issues.</p><p> <span style="color: #0000FF"><strong>Sentinel</strong></span> - Pet for concealment or CA, multi-target ranged attacks and solid encounters(Magic Stones, Charm Beast), reasonable stat synergy with Centered Breath, has good AC option via hybrid talent, hands out Staff as an implement. Lacks minor action attacks and V-stat.</p><p> </p><p><strong>Seeker</strong> - Hybrid talent opens up an unusual +1 to hit with thrown weapons that is not dependent on making a weapon attack. Lacks minor action attacks and has V-stat issues.</p><p> <strong>Executioner</strong> - Decent MBA, single stat, access to feats.</p><p><strong>Paladin </strong>- Holy Symbol, decent MBA, great AC at the cost of a feat, solid routes to basically being a full-fledged Desert Wind Monk in terms of attack powers while being a full-fledged Defender part of Paladin in terms of Divine Challenge/Sanction. V-stat issues, but not as severe as one might think.</p><p><strong>Cavalier</strong> - better than Paladin outside of Epic as you don't want to spend minor actions to trigger Divine Challenge anyway most of the time and +4 initiative/+2 to surge value. Plays mostly the same as Paladin.</p><p><strong>Blackguard </strong>- A touch worse than the other Paladin options. We're mainly here to upgrade Virtuous Strike's damage.</p><p></p><p>There are a number of other classes that aren't bad, just no particular synergy and/or hard to make work in Online Character Builder:</p><p> <span style="color: #993366"><strong>Invoker - </strong><span style="color: #333333">Very similar to Sentinel except it lacks the light shield from Hybrid Talent and has worse hp and surges.</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #993366"><strong>Sorcerer - </strong><span style="color: #333333">Flame Spiral+Furious Bull. Now if only AC wasn't a problem.</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #993366"><strong>Warden - </strong><span style="color: #333333">go Str/Dex for AC. Eternal Tide Slows...</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MwaO, post: 6703361, member: 12749"] [b]Multiclassing & Hybriding[/b] [B]Multiclassing[/B] Monks definitely need to consider multiclassing and/or hybriding. They lose very, very little from hybriding except the ability to use non-Monk powers to power Blurred Ki Focus. The big problem for Monks is that they don't get any minor, single target multi-attack or immediate action attack options and it is debatable whether or not they have some move action attacks - even if they do, it helps to have standard action attacks from elsewhere. The good MCs [COLOR=#800080][/COLOR] [B]Assassin[/B] [B][COLOR=#800080]Shadow Initiate[/COLOR] [/B]- Rogue is almost strictly better unless your DM believes that Claw Gloves interact somehow with Shrouds. Expect Table Variation. [COLOR=#800080][B]Novice Power[/B][/COLOR] - Flurry of Talons. Again, Expect Table Variation. What does 3 attack rolls that one resolves as a single hit even mean? If you get a [I]very[/I] favorable ruling from your DM, go to town. [B]Avenger[/B] [B]Discipline of Divine Wrath[/B] (req wis 13) (PHB2)- Skill training in religion, access to the avenger's striker mechanic for two turns, and holy symbol training. Too bad that the aveger's striker mechanic works poorly for close burst specialists like the monk. However, it can help you score on a nice melee daily power. The basic problem here is that there really isn't a tradition wow'd by this. Soulforge Hammering might attract a Centered Breath Monk, but Soulforge's real value is in assuming your target will survive until the next turn and that it is worth a standard + minor to do 2-1w+stat attacks. [B]Novice Power:[/B] Fury's Advance. Only for Centered Breath Monks [B]Cleric[/B] Cleric is a nice choice for the holy symbol proficiency, decent paragon paths, and some nice healing power swaps. Wisdom 13 is relatively easy to qualify for as well. [B]Divine Channeler[/B] (req wis 13 and religion trained) (CD) - Healer's Mercy is a nice power to have when things go horribly wrong. [B][COLOR=#0000FF]Initiate of the Faith[/COLOR] [/B](req wis 13) (PHB) - Training in religion, a heal once per day, and holy symbol profeciency is nice for a feat. [B]Fighter[/B] Fighter is a common MC for monks due to some feats, like Polearm Momentum and Slashing Storm. Small races, like halflings, also can gain a lot from Small Warrior's Defense. Some fighter stances, like Dancing Defense also may be worth a power swap. If your DM goes for move-based Monk powers getting an attack, Fighter jumps to [B][COLOR=#00CCFF]Sky Blue[/COLOR][/B]. [B]Battle Awareness[/B] (req13 Str, 13 Wis) (MP)- If you have Melee training or a good strength, then you will get good use out of the free melee basic each encounter. However, the stat requirements suck for everyone but polearm users. [B][COLOR=#0000FF]Cyclone Warrior[/COLOR] [/B](MP2)- A scaling bonus to all damage rolls for a turn each encounter could be useful. [B][COLOR=#800080]Wrathful Warrior[/COLOR] [/B]([B][COLOR=#0000FF]Iron Soul[/COLOR][/B], req 13 Con) (MP2) Temp hp and a skill [B]Power Swaps:[/B] Rain of Blows, Come And Get It [B]Paragon Paths:[/B] Shock Trooper [B]Invoker[/B] Invoker is a decent choice for a monk looking to pick up staff profeciency (to use it one-handed). [B]Acoltye of the Divine Secrets[/B] (re wis 13) (PHB2)- Training in religion, an invoker at will(aka Hand of Radiance), and staff implements. [B]Paladin[/B] Paladin is an okay choice for monks who want to play defender, or pick up some save granting powers. Holy symbol proficiency is also very nice. There's a small catch-22 with Desert Wind and Divine Challenge/Sanction - penalty to hit you, penalty to hit your allies. [B]Divine Channeler [/B](req wis 13 and religion trained) (CD) - Divine Mettle is a nice get. [B]Soldier of the Faith [/B](req str 13 and cha 13) (PHB) - difficult stat requirements, but a mark once per encounter might be worth it for monks wanting to play defender. [B]Soldier of Virtue [/B](req wis 15) (CD)- Any 1 skill, remove one effect as a minor action is nice, plus you get holy symbol prof. Can't complain. [B]Ranger[/B] Ranger is good primarily because there are some triple-hitter ranged attack powers that could fit in well. [B]Rogue[/B] Rogues have a few feats, like Surprising Charge, that could be used by some monks. On the plus side, rogues powers all use dex and MC feats are easy to qualify for. Feat swaps will be looking for Minor Action attacks, such as Low Slash, Snap Shot, or Tumbling Strike. Or a massive multi-attack power such as Path of the Blade, which quite frankly is really nasty with a blurred ki focus Centered Breath Monk, low charisma and all. If you're going for the Paragon Path Unseen Hand, this is mandatory for Two-Fisted Shooter. This is Sky Blue because you're picking up an attack power to use. [B]Sneak of Shadows[/B]- Sneak attack once per encounter could be useful. [B]Twilight Adept[/B]- Once per turn you can hide with only concealment/cover and not take stealth penalties for movement. [B]Sorcerer[/B] Mostly here for Desert Flurry monks, but whoa, a Monk with Flame Spiral+Demonskin Adept Paragon Path is a power house build. [B]Swordmage[/B] This is mostly just for Eladrin, due to Eladrin Swordmage Advance and Borrowed Confidence. [B]Warlock[/B] Some warlock paragon paths could be fun, and some power swaps also could be useful, like Ethereal Stride. [B]Binding Initiate[/B] (phb) - Rod and Wand profeciency, and the ability to turn invisible once per encounter after killing something. If you're an optimized monk and have just surprised the living daylights out of your DM, this may be something you want to do. --------- [B]Hybriding[/B] [COLOR=#000000]In general, Monk doesn't lose a whole lot by hybriding other than the ability to poach minor action or multi- attacks from other classes and then use them with Flurry of Blows. So if you pick up something better and weren't planning to use a Blurred Ki Focus anyway, but rather Elemental Damage, there you go. There are still some options to use a Blurred Ki Focus with the hybrids - just take multi-attack Monk powers, but it can be more difficult or stat-intensive. The one difficult part is that WotC hasn't updated(and almost certainly will not) the builder to understand that Eternal Tide, Desert Wind, and Iron Soul are legal options to be picked. Which means leaving the tradition black and in the power menu, adding a custom power - then just pick the correct FoB. The other ability isn't usually particularly relevant as you ought to spend your Hybrid Talent feat to either get Armor from your other side or Monk Unarmored Defense[/COLOR][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000][COLOR=#00CCFF][B]Fighter[/B][/COLOR] - Rain of Blows, opens up Polearm Momentum without spending the MC feat, great AC via hybrid talent, a couple of really good paragon paths, synergizes well with Eternal Tide. V-stat issues which Rain of Steel partially gets rid of, don't plan to mark past 3 rounds, though(Rain of Blows, Kirre's Roar, Come And Get It). Could potentially MC into Bard for Daring Blade for a Blistering Flourish+Rain of Blows set up where you dump Str. [COLOR=#00CCFF][B]Ran[COLOR=#0000FF]ger[/COLOR][/B][/COLOR] - Single stat, Archer Ranger means use bow as implement, bracers of archery, twin strike, disruptive strike while having monk close burst options as alternative. Str has minor action attacks, but V-stat not as helpful compared to Rogue. Basically, you're a Monk who has good damage bonuses and has Twin Strike.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000][COLOR=#00CCFF][B]Rogue[/B][/COLOR] - Single stat, minor action attacks galore. Hybrid talent opens up unusual +1 to hit with daggers or crossbows. You're a Monk who uses Low Slash and Tumbling Strike with a little extra accuracy. Another advantage is that you can still MC into Fighter for Polearm Momentum, MC into Assassin for the paragon cover feat to join the ranks of the hidden, or into a Divine Class for Holy Symbol and Symbol of Victory.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000FF][B]Barbarian[/B][/COLOR] - similar to Fighter, but the V-stat is a bit more painful due to Storm of Blows issue. [COLOR=#0000FF][B]Battlemind [/B][/COLOR]- Synergy between Iron Soul's ability to prevent a shift and Battlemind's immediates. Great AC via feat. Get a decent MBA and force targets to consider taking an MBA or Forceful Reversal. Add in Soaring Blade for +Con fire damage to melee attacks, get a Firewind Blade, and Brutal Barrage. [COLOR=#0000FF][B]Cleric[/B][/COLOR] - good AC, minor action attack from Paragon of Victory Paragon Path, get Holy Symbol. Has V-stat issues. [COLOR=#0000FF][B]Sentinel[/B][/COLOR] - Pet for concealment or CA, multi-target ranged attacks and solid encounters(Magic Stones, Charm Beast), reasonable stat synergy with Centered Breath, has good AC option via hybrid talent, hands out Staff as an implement. Lacks minor action attacks and V-stat. [B]Seeker[/B] - Hybrid talent opens up an unusual +1 to hit with thrown weapons that is not dependent on making a weapon attack. Lacks minor action attacks and has V-stat issues. [B]Executioner[/B] - Decent MBA, single stat, access to feats. [B]Paladin [/B]- Holy Symbol, decent MBA, great AC at the cost of a feat, solid routes to basically being a full-fledged Desert Wind Monk in terms of attack powers while being a full-fledged Defender part of Paladin in terms of Divine Challenge/Sanction. V-stat issues, but not as severe as one might think. [B]Cavalier[/B] - better than Paladin outside of Epic as you don't want to spend minor actions to trigger Divine Challenge anyway most of the time and +4 initiative/+2 to surge value. Plays mostly the same as Paladin. [B]Blackguard [/B]- A touch worse than the other Paladin options. We're mainly here to upgrade Virtuous Strike's damage. There are a number of other classes that aren't bad, just no particular synergy and/or hard to make work in Online Character Builder: [COLOR=#993366][B]Invoker - [/B][COLOR=#333333]Very similar to Sentinel except it lacks the light shield from Hybrid Talent and has worse hp and surges.[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=#993366][B]Sorcerer - [/B][COLOR=#333333]Flame Spiral+Furious Bull. Now if only AC wasn't a problem.[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=#993366][B]Warden - [/B][COLOR=#333333]go Str/Dex for AC. Eternal Tide Slows...[/COLOR][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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