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The danger of the Three Pillars of D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5818738" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I agree with Spatula. Meaningful character distinction can rest on the manner of contribution - both its mechanical nature (eg ranged vs non-ranged attacks) and it's fictional/story nature (eg shooting arrows vs summoning spirits of the dead).</p><p></p><p>Provided that "better" in the second clause means "better for the purposes of realising my PC", then I agree. But this is orthogonal to the issue of whether each PC is competent in a range of typical adventuring contexts. If (for exampe) one PC is good at wooing maidens, and another at scaring them, then we have a situation in which choices mater, and produce meaningfully different PCs, although both may be equally able to have an impact on social situations.</p><p></p><p>A bit of speculation: both KM and Ahnehnois seems to be equating "equally able to contribute" with "equally likely to win", as if "winning" had some predetermined value. I want a game where what counts as "winning" is determined by the players, not the GM, and is worked out in the course of play; and where all the players are, via their PCs, able to have a meaningful impact on any given situation.</p><p></p><p>Consider the PC who can woo maidens, and the PC who can scare them. It's not the case that both of these PCs are equally good at "winning" - if the first is wanting to woo the maiden, then the scary one is likely (everything else being equal) to be an obstacle to that goal. The point is that both are able to make a meaningful difference in an encounter with maidens. Which is what I want out of an RPG.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5818738, member: 42582"] I agree with Spatula. Meaningful character distinction can rest on the manner of contribution - both its mechanical nature (eg ranged vs non-ranged attacks) and it's fictional/story nature (eg shooting arrows vs summoning spirits of the dead). Provided that "better" in the second clause means "better for the purposes of realising my PC", then I agree. But this is orthogonal to the issue of whether each PC is competent in a range of typical adventuring contexts. If (for exampe) one PC is good at wooing maidens, and another at scaring them, then we have a situation in which choices mater, and produce meaningfully different PCs, although both may be equally able to have an impact on social situations. A bit of speculation: both KM and Ahnehnois seems to be equating "equally able to contribute" with "equally likely to win", as if "winning" had some predetermined value. I want a game where what counts as "winning" is determined by the players, not the GM, and is worked out in the course of play; and where all the players are, via their PCs, able to have a meaningful impact on any given situation. Consider the PC who can woo maidens, and the PC who can scare them. It's not the case that both of these PCs are equally good at "winning" - if the first is wanting to woo the maiden, then the scary one is likely (everything else being equal) to be an obstacle to that goal. The point is that both are able to make a meaningful difference in an encounter with maidens. Which is what I want out of an RPG. [/QUOTE]
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The danger of the Three Pillars of D&D
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