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The Dilemma of the Simple RPG
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7714885" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I still maintain that the basic question is meaningless, precisely because of the issue you are touching on here. You correctly state that the core mechanics of a game can be extremely simple, and yet the rules of the game can be extremely complex.</p><p></p><p>I'd maintain that the reason D&D's rules are complex is the extensive number of cases and scenarios that it believes needs to explicitly be modeled because they 'matter' and the results of a player interacting with that element of the fiction both matter and should be fairly arbitrated (as by a neutral referee). D&D's rules started very simple and organically evolved to a complex state quite quickly after the game was invented precisely because of these two unstated assumptions. And perusing the rules of D&D encourages the players of the game (including the game master) to think about the game in those terms.</p><p></p><p>If you have a 'rules light' system, but the participants in the game think about the fictional state as mattering and requiring fair arbitration, then the game isn't going to stay 'rules light' for long. Simply by thinking about the game in that manner, the GM will almost be forced to create rulings which will evolve in to de facto rules, that eventually will if they were ever compiled be an enormous document. </p><p></p><p>Some people make the mistake of thinking that rules that aren't compiled aren't actually rules, and that if they exist only in head space, then the game is still lightweight, but I think it's pretty easy to see that even with a game like D&D rules for the most part exist only in head space and the only real difference is how you go about looking them up when they are missing from your head space. </p><p></p><p>That's why any game system that features Rule Zero can't be said to be "Rules Light". Rule Zero inherently makes the rules infinitely extensible. Board Games are 'rules light'. Chess, Settlers of Cataan, Mice & Mystics are 'rules light'. The referee is superfluous in those games because the rules set is closed and there is no need for inventing new rules. RPG's expect to need new rules all the time, which is one of the reasons that they have a rules generating engine - the Game Master. The only real difference is how complete the rules attempt to be on paper. </p><p></p><p>As such, the whole question of whether FATE or D20 is heavier is not one that I think even makes sense, much less has an objective answer. Both systems attempt to be quite complete, and the more complete a FUDGE based game will attempt to be, the bigger it will get. And it's almost invariable that any designer playtesting a FUDGE based game will feel the need to extend it to cover the cases that they wished they'd covered in an earlier iteration.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7714885, member: 4937"] I still maintain that the basic question is meaningless, precisely because of the issue you are touching on here. You correctly state that the core mechanics of a game can be extremely simple, and yet the rules of the game can be extremely complex. I'd maintain that the reason D&D's rules are complex is the extensive number of cases and scenarios that it believes needs to explicitly be modeled because they 'matter' and the results of a player interacting with that element of the fiction both matter and should be fairly arbitrated (as by a neutral referee). D&D's rules started very simple and organically evolved to a complex state quite quickly after the game was invented precisely because of these two unstated assumptions. And perusing the rules of D&D encourages the players of the game (including the game master) to think about the game in those terms. If you have a 'rules light' system, but the participants in the game think about the fictional state as mattering and requiring fair arbitration, then the game isn't going to stay 'rules light' for long. Simply by thinking about the game in that manner, the GM will almost be forced to create rulings which will evolve in to de facto rules, that eventually will if they were ever compiled be an enormous document. Some people make the mistake of thinking that rules that aren't compiled aren't actually rules, and that if they exist only in head space, then the game is still lightweight, but I think it's pretty easy to see that even with a game like D&D rules for the most part exist only in head space and the only real difference is how you go about looking them up when they are missing from your head space. That's why any game system that features Rule Zero can't be said to be "Rules Light". Rule Zero inherently makes the rules infinitely extensible. Board Games are 'rules light'. Chess, Settlers of Cataan, Mice & Mystics are 'rules light'. The referee is superfluous in those games because the rules set is closed and there is no need for inventing new rules. RPG's expect to need new rules all the time, which is one of the reasons that they have a rules generating engine - the Game Master. The only real difference is how complete the rules attempt to be on paper. As such, the whole question of whether FATE or D20 is heavier is not one that I think even makes sense, much less has an objective answer. Both systems attempt to be quite complete, and the more complete a FUDGE based game will attempt to be, the bigger it will get. And it's almost invariable that any designer playtesting a FUDGE based game will feel the need to extend it to cover the cases that they wished they'd covered in an earlier iteration. [/QUOTE]
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